"The mousetrap!"
Sorry for the late post. This one will be open until Saturday morning.
You all are doing a wonderful job with the play. I'm especially impressed with the out of the box thinking I'm seeing. The willingness to debate. The introduction of songs you've heard that remind you of the play etc. The point here is that this play is relevant to us. Today. Perhaps the most relevant of Shakespeare's works. Harold Bloom believes that this play offers us almost every dilemma we face as humans. That every decision we make boils down to the central question: To be or not to be? To exist or not to exist? To what extent are we in control of our lives?
Anyway, good job. Here are your topics:
1. Draw up a list of possible reasons why Hamlet treats Ophelia so bitterly. Arrange them in order of "Most Likely" to "Least Likely."
2. Gertrude's judgment on the player queen contains the famous line: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." Gertrude believes that the player queen is too over the top in her promises of love to the player king. What lies behind Gertrude's comment? Does she see herself in this play? To what extent? Discuss Gertrude's state of mind. If you have trouble, consider the notion that she might be in denial. Tell me what you think and explain.
3. How would you have Claudius react to the play? Would he scream? Would he remain quiet? Why? What is going through Claudius's mind as he realizes what is happening?
Be brilliant. Read each other's comments. I'll be checking in.
You all are doing a wonderful job with the play. I'm especially impressed with the out of the box thinking I'm seeing. The willingness to debate. The introduction of songs you've heard that remind you of the play etc. The point here is that this play is relevant to us. Today. Perhaps the most relevant of Shakespeare's works. Harold Bloom believes that this play offers us almost every dilemma we face as humans. That every decision we make boils down to the central question: To be or not to be? To exist or not to exist? To what extent are we in control of our lives?
Anyway, good job. Here are your topics:
1. Draw up a list of possible reasons why Hamlet treats Ophelia so bitterly. Arrange them in order of "Most Likely" to "Least Likely."
2. Gertrude's judgment on the player queen contains the famous line: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." Gertrude believes that the player queen is too over the top in her promises of love to the player king. What lies behind Gertrude's comment? Does she see herself in this play? To what extent? Discuss Gertrude's state of mind. If you have trouble, consider the notion that she might be in denial. Tell me what you think and explain.
3. How would you have Claudius react to the play? Would he scream? Would he remain quiet? Why? What is going through Claudius's mind as he realizes what is happening?
Be brilliant. Read each other's comments. I'll be checking in.
posted by Ian Anthony Godburn at 9:17 PM
25 Comments:
Response to topic 1
Reasons why hamlet might treat Ophelia so bitterly might be
-That Hamlet sees her as a deceitful B#@!h for trying to spy on him.
-Hamlet may be angry at her for not staying out of his personal business, instead of going to a nunnery where she could be "honest" and because of this she must be treated like a "pawn" in his "game."
-Lastly Hamlet may just be straight up sick of her personality, and presence.
Responses to topic 2 and 3 are coming shortly
From:
Philip Lucas
Per.4
1) Hamlet could be bitter toward Ophelia for a few reasons. One could be because she lied to him about the location of her father. She lies to Hamlet like almost everyone else he knows. Second, perhaps because she agreed to help her father and Claudius spy on Hamlet. Third he could have been annoyed with the way she could not pick up on what he was trying to tell her just moments before about not loving her, but being a lier.
2) Gertrude's comment aboyt the player queen could be her way od disconnecting herself from the player queen. In her ming the player queen over reacts but she dosen't. Allowing her to say that the player queen is one way and she is another so they are not alike. In her comment I do believe that she sees herself in the play. The similarities are too strong between the two events for her to not. I think that Certrude is in a slight state of denial. Complaining that that the player queen "protest too much" is one way she can tell herself that she is different. Maby not so easily wooed.
3) If I were Claudius I would have become very tense, nervuos and suspicious during the play. All very quietly. I would be more concerned at that moment with what other people were thinking about the play and its meaning, how they would react to it later and how does Hamlet know. Why does he know, and if he dosen't, why does he assume that I did kill King Hamlet. Once I realized what was going on I would be freaked and scared about just what Hamlet would do next and how he would do whatever he had in mind.
topic three:
I was VERY surprised that Claudius just quietly stood up in the movie. After reading the scene, I fully expected him to stand up looking enraged and shouting. But, then again, Hamlet does enough screaming in the movie for everyone. He yells all over the place.
I would have Claudius yell when he stands up to keep up the readers suspicion that he is guilty. It seems like thats what Shakespeare wants the audience to think thus far, so I would play on that by having him completely overreact.
When Claudius realizes whats happening, I think he is probably a little surprised and a little scared. It becomes clear that Hamlet knows about the murder and Hamlet, acting the way he has been, looks like he is capable of doing anything. His showings of insanity are really quite frightening. They are brilliant but frightening.
Tori Cusick, period 4 =)
I think the reason that Hamlet decided to make the play was to make his mother and his uncle aware that he is
on them and to let the kingdom of Denmark know what
Claudias did and I also think that it would have been
better for Claudias if would of enjoyed and honored the
play rather than show anger
David betshmuel
Period 4
1. -hes heartbroken that she broke up with him and is seeking revenge
-hes disappointed that she is one of them and does not understand him
-hes upset that she is such a willing pawn in her father's game]
-he is upset that she aided her father in the conspiracy in which she gave him back his love letters
-he is feeling upset wiht life in general and is taking it out on her
-masha telishevsky period 6
1) i agree with Philip about the way hamlet is acting around Ophelia. i feel he is also in love with her like Mariam says. i think one of the main reason is cause she is spying on him and he knows it.
2) maybe the queen makes this comment because she sees herself in this women and does not think she acts in that manner. i think she sees herself in the play in the sense that it is a queen talking to a king and she is a queen and she maybe thinks this queen represents all queens and not only her and she is stating that queens do not actually act like that.she might not think it is geared totally toward herself, even if she may be in on the murder she might not be aware the play is about her or the murder that took place.
3) i would have him keep quiet and not stand up or do anything i would have him stay seated and watch the play and make it seem like it has nothing to do with him because of his actions that could be enough to spur Hamlet to kill him.in the play he stands up because while watching the play he realizes what it is about and has to get air because of the shock, which you can see in his eyes.
laura lascoe
period 6
Brad Goran Per 6
1.
a.Include her into Hamlet's game
b.Embarass Ophelia because of the way Hamlet thinks she betrays him
c. Fool Polonius by giving him what he wants
d. Keep Claudius and Gertrude unsuspecting of Hamlet's real amnimosity
e. Show the public that everything is not alright with the royal family.
2. Gertrude's comment is intended to show many things, the first being that she sees Hamlet trying to have a character like Gertrude on stage. Now this is why I think we can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Gertrude is indeed in denial. Her ability to acknowledge the fact that her son is trying to represent her character, and Gertrude's refusal to even acknowledge that the player queen is even a bit like her is perplexing. It shows the extreme degree of denial she is truly in.
3. If I were Claudius I would have had Hamlet arrested on the spot. Claudius knows he's going to hell so if I were him I would try to be protecting the kingdom and my time on Earth as well as I could. If he doesn't get that Hamlet knows of his hanus plot by now, quite frankily, Claudius is not smart enough to live. Now one might say that it would raise further suspicion, but if Hamlet were acting as insane as he was especially in this scene in his interaction with Ophelia and himself, the entire royal family would have probably sympathised with Claudius and understood his action. Instead his scream raised much more doubt and made everyone fidgety when he rose (because people knew something was out of the ordinary).
3. I would have Claudius react to the play by either just doing what he did or doing the complete opposite, freaking out. You can't be anywhere in between because people then would know. If he freaked out, like psycho-crazy, people might of just thought he is crazy in the head and people shouldn't listen to him. Claudius is freaking out because he realizes Hamlet knows. He also realizes that everyone may know now. Now for the comple.te opposite, if he did what he really did in the play, then I would have Claudius either send Hamlet away or give him the throne and take an honorable suicide/execution. If he sent Hamlet away, he could basically not worry about anybody knowing, because no one has proof except Hamlet and maybe Horatio. However Claudius in the end will do what he wants because he is Claudius and is the King of Denmark.....for now.
-Russell Tuchman
-Per. 4
I was sick in bed and thought... what can be better than going out on a Friday night... and I was like DUH!!! Hamlet!
1. There are plenty of reasons for Hamlet's bitter attitude towards Ophelia. A. Hamlet is upset because of her betrayal. She began lying to him when she said her father was at home when Hamlet knew he was there. B. He may be treating her this way because he is trying to act crazy in front of Claudius and the rest of the royal crowd. C. Maybe he is still in love with her, and doesn't know how to express it, while acting in still manner.
2. I believe that Gertrude is extremely naive and does not think that the queen resembles her at all. She is easily swayed in many ways. A. Claudius made her marry him so quickly. B. She agreed to stoop so low as to spy on Hamlet. C. She does not see through anyone's facade. ~ I don't think Gertrude thinks anything of it until Claudius freaks out in the middle of the killing scene.
3. I would have had Claudius sweating profusely and having his eye twitching or something. To make him look guilty, but not so everyone could see, just enough for Hamlet and Horatio to notice. So later, Hamlet murder of Claudius would be even more shocking.
I just want to add that I originally thought that Claudius was innocent because in many of Shakespeare's plays, many murders were committed because the actors only believe what they want to believe. They do not know the whole story, and react to quickly... all over a MISUNDERSTANDING. But I am still not positive that we know the whole story yet.
Shane Z.
Period 4
Now I need shower and get all of the MOCHA out of my hair...
1.Hamlet is bitter towards Ophelia for many reasons. First, when Hamlet reveals his "antic disposition" he shows that he is careless of everyone’s thoughts. Second, all eyes are on Hamlet as he acts bitter towards Ophelia, and it's sort of like he needs to prove that even a person he once loved is treated bitterly. The third reason for this bitter act towards Ophelia is because even the one person he believed would never lie to him has.
2.Gertrude's line regarding the player queen could be her self-assurance that what she did isn't all that bad, and is constantly comparing the two in her head. I believe that Gertrude truly does see herself in the play and will put the player queen down as if they have nothing in common, when truly they are both very similar.
3. I would have Claudius remain in his seat, because getting up out of his seat has shown us that he truly isn't innocent. I would probably have Claudius get up and leave the room, which could either show us that he is irritated or that he has other matters to attend to. This would not show us that he is guilty, it would only keep us guessing.
Landon Ball (L-Ball)
period # 4
Shanley Wang
Period 6
I.
-Hamlet dislikes the fact that Ophelia has sold herself to the acting, the lies, the image instead of the substance
-Ophelia is outside of Hamlet's will to control, because she is intruding on Hamlet's play.
-She is a Yankees fan. He likes the Sox.
II.
Gertrude definitely sees herself in the actress' potrayal of a queen. She is trying to justify to herself her own incestuous actions by denying the wrong in her actions by denying the right in the play.
III.
I would've had Claudius die of surprise, then come back to tell Hamlet how much the undiscover'd country sucks.
Seriously, I would get Claudius' face so tight that it looks like a statue. And he wouldn't cause a loud disturbance, but a repeated, anguished command to return the lights as he uneasily rises from his chair, with the same stone face. He would be trying to play it off as illness, but everyone will know.
1. -Ophelia is on the wrong side of the war in Hamlet's point of view.
- He is heart broken
-He has to kee up his craziness
-He wants to drive Ophelia away from the corruption and problems in the kingdom.
2.I believe Gertrude does see herself in the character, and she is trying to distance herself from what Hamlet sees her as. I also think that Gertrude must feel extremely guilty now that Hamlet has shown to her that he thinks she is a disaster.
3.I would have Claudius remain completely quiet but then have a single tear drip down from his rght eye, like in that littering commercial where that Indian cries. This would jump out to Hamlet and nobody else, and it would also just look a lot cooler. I think that Claudius finally realizes that he is bound to go to hell after he sees the play.
Adam Jacobs
per 6
Daniel Craig is my hero
1. a) She lied to him, when he had put so much trust in her to even be willing to exclude her from his “play” of Elsinores monarchy, and let her be equal to him, and not live under his invisible but obvious power, was a big deal to Hamlet, and as soon as he hints to her, that he wants to tell her everything, even though she probably doesn’t realize what he is saying, this is where she lies to him, right to his face.
b) Of course also to deceive the ever-watching eye of Elsinore, he really overdoes the whole drama queen/insane person thing as soon as he realizes that he is being watched, which is always, but he doesn’t always remember, or care to remember about his spectators, but as soon as he does he uses Ophelia to further his antic disposition.
c) She dumped him, and not only did she break his heart in his already broken soul, but she did it because of her father, which I think pisses Hamlet off because, he really wants to see who she is, when they were alone together, I presume that she was natural and honest, but as soon as she is out of the bedroom, she becomes who people tell her to be, sort of like Polonius (like father, like daughter), and her multiple identity tricks confuse Hamlet, so he turns her away so he doesn’t leave himself vulnerable to their tricks.
2. I think Gertie can relate to the character, but doesn’t quite realize that the character is her. In those famous lines, she is trying to stand up for not only herself, but all women whom have been in the whole “I won’t remarry” situation, and she is saying that, women say that but such a statement is foolish. She wants consent from Hamlet saying that there is nothing wrong with what she did, obviously she feels guilty, she sees more clearly than anyone else what her remarriage has done to her son, she’s not quite denying that what she did was wrong, right now she just wants feed back from Hamlet, it seems at this point that Hamlets opinion is the most important to her. The denial she does have is denying herself to see the big picture, to match all the parallels in the play, that she knows of, and to start to wonder if the rest of the things in the play are meant to reflect something in her life as well.
3. I would have Claudius stand up in silence (in the dark) with a blank stare and stiff body, walk to the nearest sharp object and stab himself in the heart, YEAH! :D I don’t think anything is going through his mind, he’s in shock, he probably couldn’t think clearly if his life depended on it, HAHAH. Once he calms down and “prays” he merely realizes the obvious, he’s going to hell! But he knew what the undeniable, and possible consequences were of killing his brother, and since he is an adult he considers coming consequence before action, he obviously thought that being king was worth all it’s future expenses, and he still thinks so, at least up until this point, he might change his mind later and regret the murder, but IT’S TOO LATE! hihihohohahah
Hannah Kaufman Per. 6
1. He is mad at Ofelia for not being truthful; she isn’t how he thought she was.
2. He wants to make Polonius think he is crazy because of his daughter.
3. He doesn’t like Ofelia anymore.
4. He’s just a mean person like that.
I definitely think she is in denial and the play shows her something she does not want to see. She says her famous line because she knows in the back of he mind that she probably would have said the same thing but she knows she has already broken that. I don’t think she fully connects herself to it because she does not feel guilty or is just completely in denial.
If I were directing the play I would have just had Claudius sit through the would play making distorted faces and maybe crying or something so it would be more obvious that he connected with every part of the play.
Sami Gross Per 4
3)I noticed that a lot of people are saying that Claudius should keep his cool but I think that would completley alter the play. You have to stay true to the story and make Claudius react and get everyone's attention, which is why I would have him vomit. I agreed with Mr. Benjarama that there should be a build up with sweating and tense looks. So I would have that and have Claudius run into the hall and fall to his knees and puke his guts out.
1)I disagree with Masha and Laura about Hamlet being "heartbroken." I think Hamlet has already gotten over losing Ophelia as a lover. I think he is angry at Ophelia for not being who he wanted her to be. In his conversation with her, Hamlet wants her to get out of Denmark and go somewhere safe but she betrays him and when someone betrays you, you want to take revenge on that person or do something bad to them. I think Hamlet just wants to make Ophelia's life as bad as possible because I bet all that he thinks of her is "I thought you were better than that."
Norbert per 6
1. Hamlet treats Ophelia so bitterly because:
a. she has betrayed him
b. he distrust all women because of his mother's actions
c. he loves her and won't allow himself to show it because of his lack of trust
2. Gertrude must be in denial because she shows so little emotion when confronted with her own past history. Since she has moved on and remarried, she thinks that the queen in the play is overdoing it.
3. Claudius must have been enraged because he is the most powerful person in Denmark and Hamlet is mocking him and revealing what he knows about him. He is probably worried that Hamlet will rebel. I think he would just coldly get up and leave. If he made a big deal about the play it would make him look more guilty.
Stephanie Stone, period 6
topic one:
Hamlet treats ophelia poorly because:
a) He feels that since she is Polonius's daughter, she might also be spying
on him and reporting back to Polonius and the King who probably think that
his romance with her will open doors to find out whats going on with him
b)It is just another part to his antic disposition
c)He's just taking out his frustrations of the situation he's in on the
easiest target who will take it without doing something back
topic two:
I think Gertrude sees herslef in the play but doesn't want to see herself.
Her saying that the Queen talks too much is just another way for her to
defelct that image of herself.
topic three:
I would have Claudius try to play it off like it he didn't know what was
going on. Kind of like that little kid who pretends not to know who broke
the really expensive vase when really it has hhis name written all over it.
Samantha Canez
1. a) Hamlet feels hurt that Ophelia lied to him about Polonius being at home when he knew that he was in the room spying on him. b) For show, just to mess around with Polonius' assumption. c) Ophelia is just another person Hamlet needs to be in control of.
2. I think Gertrude is truly in denial. However, the comment she made, I think, shows her way of thinking. Apparently she finds the player queen shouldn't promise to the king with such dedicated love. So you can see where sort'a why she did what she did.
3. If I were directing...during the play when the player king gets poisioned I would have Claudius drinking wine or something and when he sees the act being done, he chokes on his wine and spills the remaining wine on his shirt, which then he'd have to stand up and wipe up because no. Then everyone would have their attention on him as he tries to wipe the wine off his shirt...that might be mistaken as blood...oooo...haha. Yea, that's all I got.
Ariyani Wray
Per. 6
Topic #2: I think Gertrude knows that the play is about her. I think she is defending herself when she says "the lady doth protests too much methinks." I think she is trying to say that she never promised Hamlet's father an everlasting love and that she should not be ashamed of her actions.
carly lepp per. 6
1. Hamlet treats Ophelia so bitterly for many possible reasons. The most likely reason is that he is mad at her for lying to him about the location of her father. Another reason might be that he is disappointed that she broke up with him. And the least likely reason would be that he is deeply in love with her, causing him to act weirdly because she does not feel the same way.
2. Gertrude uses her comment as a way of justifying her actions and making them seem right to herself. Throughout the play Gertrude seems as if she is in denial. I think that Gertrude realizes that the player queen and her face the same issues but Gertrude finds a way to justify her actions.
3.I would have Claudius remain silent throughout the play. Although he would be silent I would still have him look very uncomfortable and irritated so that it would only be noticeable to Hamlet and Horatio. Throughout the play the thing that is going through Claudius's mind is how could Hamlet possibly know what Claudius did.
Michael Ashoori
Period 4
numero tres
I think it was silly and stupid for Claudius to make a scene like that during the play. If he stayed quiet and didnt stand up like that, then people wouldnt be that suspicious that something was going on. It was a bad reflex on his part. Im pretty sure Claudius knows that Hamlet knows, so now Claudius is in big trouble. Claudius cant win, what a loser, eh?
-Jenny La Van
Period 6
1.) Hamlet is most likely being so bitter toward Ophelia because she decived him and is just like everyone else in the way she is acting, so he has lost respect for her.
2.) I think that Gertrude sees herself in the player queen a little bit but not enough to acutally make the connection that it is her. She thinks the promise is far fetched because she made that promise and ended up not keeping it to her first husbond so she probally feels no one could keep that promise.
3.)I would have him yell "STOP!" or something instead of just stand and ask for light. It would make his reaction more dramatic. Claduius has figured out the play and has seen his act in it so he is freaked out and feels guilty for his actions so he feels the need to stop the play.
-Heather Gossler
pd. 4
Numero Dos:
2) "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." I think that this is not Gertrudes true feelings, in fact they are the exact opposite. The only reason she says this, is because it gives back-up to what she is doing with Claudius. She is very insecure about her whole situation and I believe that the only way she can overcome this insecurity, is to let everyone else know that she is not. In the end, these "insecure lies" and her royal ways will all come to a crash that might just include death.?.?
Miles Silverstein
Period 4
P.S. Sorry for da lateness G-burn.
1) I believe Hamlet treats Ophelia so bitterly because she lied to him, which he seems to hate people who lie. He is just straight up annoyed of her just being plainly stupid, and being a peon.
2) Gertrude says that the player queen is too over top with her promises because she herself doesn't follow her own promises. I believe she does see herself in the play, but she doesn't want to believe she is.
3) I would have Claudius completely flip out and have him run around like a chicken that had his head chopped off. He would be covering his ears and screaming lalalalalalalala. He would be freaked out due to the fact that Hamlet figured out, someway, of how he had killed Old Hamlet.
Hamlet is a total ass to Ophelia for a good reason and a bad one. The good one, and most likely, is that he’s trying to maintain his “antic disposition,” and also that he’s trying to make Polonius think he’s going crazy simply because of his daughter. Less likely, on the bad side of Hamlet, his emotional rollercoaster has reached a peak and he feels first depression and then anger towards her over their break-up.
Gertrude is trying to convince herself that marrying Claudius was still an okay thing to do. She definitely sees herself in the play, but to the extent that it has not fully dawned on her that Hamlet arranged her to see it, and that it is simply a coincidence. She is indeed in denial, and part of her knows exactly what’s happening – and that what she did was wrong.
If I were to create rendition of Shakespeare’s play, I’d have him immediately stand up, bellow out “LIGHTS!!!!!!! LIGHTS!!!!!!!!” and storm off with a slightly fearful expression on his face. In my opinion, this is the part of the play where Claudius’ outward façade as an intelligent and deceitful politician totally falls apart. It’s his guilt finally bubbling out along with his startling realization that Hamlet has it all figured out that causes this break – and his outburst. That’s how I thought of it when we read it, and I was somewhat surprised when Claudius almost casually called for lights in the movie.
-AleX RingE, period 6.
-NO! NO! NO! TO THE RIGHT!
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