Claudius Talks Back
Sorry for the tardiness. This one is due Thursday at 730 AM.
In class we had a taste of Gertrude's point of view. If only because we never really get to hear it.
I want you to explain Claudius' point of view. the only condition is that you must accept that Claudius did indeed commit the murder. Claudius feels guilty because he killed his brother, but he also feels that he did the right thing.
Spend time with this one.
Be brilliant.
posted by Ian Anthony Godburn at 6:14 AM
47 Comments:
Maybe the reason cluadias thinks
that he did the right thing is becuase the old king was probably
ruling ruthlessly, like maybe the
persicuted many people and he was
probably also a very poor educated
leader and could not do good for the nations economy, that is probably why claudias killed him
I think Claudius thinks he did that right thing by commiting the murder for numerous reasons. While the previous king was a beloved war hero,Claudius has more qualities of a politican. Sneaky, and willing to do anything in his power to get what he wants, even if it means marrying his brother's wife to get more power. Though he feels guilty for killing his brother, he thinks he did the right thing because it gave him more power to have things the way he wants them.
carly lepp period 6
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Yes, Hamlet, I did kill your father.
But know this. I AM your father.
I killed your other father because it was necessary. I wish I didn't have to do it. I wish there was another way, but that ironfisted warmonger could not be allowed to keep our country down. Had I allowed him to live our country would fall behind our neighboring countries.
Not only did I free our country, I also freed your mother. Mmmm. She was stifled by Old Hamlet's inactivity and insensitivity. The emotionless hack was only content when riding a war horse (sorry if that implies anything nasty).
While the deed DOES weigh heavily on my heart, it was for the better.
Shanley Wang
Period 6
Claudius's point of view
Claudius's view of Elsinore is not "Rank" but perfect. Claudius is pretty smart and has in a way "played" out everything to his likening, much like Hamlet has. Claudius has taken the crown, and the girl without anyone questioning or suspecting anything strange. He has begun to think his world is perfect. Wile this is all done he also picks up many "tools" (Polonius) Through out the whole play he feels sneaky, UNTIL hamlet puts on the show "The Mouse Trap." Then Claudius starts to loose his composure. He sees this as a threat. I think that Claudius also believes that if he rids of Hamlet all his worries will vanish.
-Philip Lucas
-Per.4
Murder? Crime? I would not call it these outrageous names. What I did was no crime, but merely a way for me to get ahead in this kingdom to where I belong. My actions were for a good cause, I say! The "murder" is justified, for my queen was sick of that old bag and his overprotective ways, and my proper place in the Kingdom of Elsinore needed to be retrieved. Yes, he was my beloved brother, in a sense that he was my own flesh and blood, but it needed to be done! I must stick to what I have proposed, the denial of the murder on my part, and I must not reveal my true conscience to even my closest family. Kind of ironic, might you say? Now I am off to fetch a drink, because, honestly, there is no turning back from here!
that last one was from me!
Tara Miller
Per. 6
Claudius feels powerful. Yes, he feels a little guilty that he killed his brother, but the fact that he is king makes up for it. He could feel upset, but being king outweighs his guilt.
He obviously knows that Hamlet is not as dumb as he leads everyone on to be. He fears Hamlet because Hamlet has figured his secret out, and Claudius must make the first move. If Claudius stays defensive he could wind up dead (although in Shakespeare everyone winds up dead). In order to save his own life, he must exile and then kill Hamlet.
Then again, Claudius may be a little to confident. He thinks that everyone, except Hamlet, is on his side. He doesn't really know that Horatio is helping Hamlet and he doesn't realize that Gertrude is also somewhat helping Hamlet. And now that Polonius is dead, Claudius no longer has his one true person he can count on.
One thing is for sure though. He must stop thinking about his own affairs, and start thinking about Denmark's. He will create absolute havoc if he doesn't prioritize because Fortinbraus is on his way.
Shane Z
Period 4
I Claudius believe it was my right and duty to murder my own brother because I should have been the one to be heir to the throne. Ever since Hamlet and I were kids, father would pay more attention to him and I would be the outcast. I remember that father disliked me because my ideas were to radical and I corrected his dumb ideas. As I got older I came to hate and hate all the Hamlet had and recieved. What I hated the most was that Father, on his death bed made Hamlet the king and not me. I have been waiting all this time bidding my time and planning on how to kill my brother. Finally one day I got my chance. He was sleeping in the orchard and I craftly sneaked up behind him and poured some vile poison, I got from a vendor, into his ear and watched as he twisted, and turned like a worm. I promptly ran away and hid for a while until after they found the body. I then king Claudius decided make the beautiful Gertrude for my own. I also decided to send his foolish little child Hamlet away so as to not bother me. I feel now very ashamed for what I did to my brother but he deserved to die. I from the beginning should have been the rightful heir to the throne.®©
* Feel free to criticize *
Eric Singer
Period 5
Why Claudius did the right thing:
1)Claudius was old, unmarried, and accomplished nothing noteworthy during his lifetime, while Hamlet got to be king for a pretty long time. Time to share the wealth.
2)Claudius thought that he would be a better king.
3)He wanted to marry gertrude, but couldn't so long as she was married to his brother.
4)Claudius resented Hamlet for being the older and more priveleged brother.
At this point Claudius is feeling a great deal of guilt for killing his brother. We know this because he says it in his soliloquo. However, Claudius fails to mention his feelings of being somewhat justified in what he did. Maybe he feels that Hamlet was not ready to assume the throne, and killing Claudius was the only way to prevent that from happening. Maybe he wasn't ready to see the state that he cares so much about be led by his young nephew, and quite frankly I can't blame him. Hamlet, (although he is the next heir to the throne) has been living in Elsinore for at least 20 years less than Claudius. I feel Claudius killed Old Hamlet out of jealousy. Now that Claudius has been cornered by Hamlet, he is left with very few options. He can come clean and rightfully let Hamlet rule HIS kingdom, or he can send Hamlet to England to eventually die. Personally, I don't think Claudius is man enough to admit guilt, so he is left with only one option, kill Hamlet.
Jordan Rothstein
P.4 represent
So I killed my brother, so what!
He had everything, and what did I have, nothing.
He had a wife, I was alone;
He was King, I was the King's brother;
He had a family, I was on my own.
Yet, I do feel guilty for committing such a crime. He was my brother, he was my family.
I felt a change needed to be done, for I am a fan of change and going against the rules, or should I say "guidelines". Marrying my brother's wife is definately going against the "guidelines".
I felt that I would prosper more as the King. I can't just ask my dear old brother to step down from being the King. NO WAY! So, I did what anyone jealous brother would do: KILL!
I AM THE MOST POWERFUL MAN!
EVERYONE, COME PLEASE, KISS MY FEET
(if not, I have some extra ear poison lying around)
Jenny La Van
Period 6
I believe Claudius just got tired of living in his brothers shadow. And since old Hamlet was king, he was probably either a) odler, b) the favorite, or c) both. Any of which would just drive Claudius insane with the knowledge that the only reason his brother isn't kissing up to him(Claudius) right now is because of a few years of life and/or his dad liked old Hamlet better. And since he(old Hamlet) has everything he could ever want, he would be able to die happy and without any regrets. And of course, in the head of Claudius, his brother would want him, Claudius, and his wife, Gertrude, happy; so lets kill two birds with one stone and marry her to him to make sure his last wishes come true.
A bit far-fetched but still plausable.
Shiloh Stone
Period 4
I think that Claudius has a point of view which contains no conscience. He is selfish, caring only about himself and no one else. He does not like Hamlet even a tad. He also only prayed because he wanted to be on God's good side. He knows Hamlet is his biggest threat and that is why he is trying to get rid of Hamlet. However Hamlet is more intelligent than Claudius by far. Claudius does not deserve to be king if he does not care about his people more than himself. Let alone the fact that he murdered the previous king.
-Russell Tuchman
-Per. 4
Justifying Claudius' deed is going to be tough.
From his point of view, things are not totally distorted, because he is fully cognizant of the fact that what he did is bad and severely weird. He obviously feels intensely guilty--look at his soliloquy in III.iii. He wants to repent, but knows he can't, because he's not about to go and give up all he's attained. So at least he's being frank and realistic about things. He takes a futile stab at prayer and redemption, but quickly admits that he's not for real.
I can see him believing that his act is justified in that Hamlet's ostensible insanity would show that he would've made for an unfit leader. Maybe he thinks he's saved Denmark from awful leadership. And he probably thinks he's doing well as king.
Finally, let's not forget that Claudius is one sick mofo. There's no way around that, and from his point of view, it's probably really easy to feel he did the right thing.
David Burris per 4, sorry!
Claudius seems like the type of guy who does doesnt think before he acts. He has probably always been jealous of his brother in some way, and killing him was definitley a huge step that he took. Claudius must feel sooo guilty in his conscious but now we are seeing that it's coming out. But then again, he must still have a lot of positiveness in him because of what he has done and only Hamlet and his father know this...........for now.
Dani Schwartz!
Period 6
Maybe Claudius's point of view is that Old Hamlet was a repressively stuffy King and Brother who was a little too anxious to conquer all(see examples of conquering some of Norway's land). I also think that while Claudius is indeed to an extent consumed with guilt over murdering his brother, pushing his nephew out of his way in the line of succession not to mention sleeping and getting married to his brother's widow,he in all likelyhood made a mental block of the situation, convincing himself that his nephew Hamlet is too young to adequately rule over Denmark, the people of Denmark were miserable under the reign of Old Hamlet and that Gertrude was miserable married to Old Hamlet and is now in love with him. Quite a lot to deny, but then again it takes a lot to murder one's own brother
-masha telishevsky period 6
Maybe Claudius's point of view is that Old Hamlet was a repressively stuffy King and Brother who was a little too anxious to conquer all(see examples of conquering some of Norway's land). I also think that while Claudius is indeed to an extent consumed with guilt over murdering his brother, pushing his nephew out of his way in the line of succession not to mention sleeping and getting married to his brother's widow,he in all likelyhood made a mental block of the situation, convincing himself that his nephew Hamlet is too young to adequately rule over Denmark, the people of Denmark were miserable under the reign of Old Hamlet and that Gertrude was miserable married to Old Hamlet and is now in love with him. Quite a lot to deny, but then again it takes a lot to murder one's own brother
-masha telishevsky period 6
I agree with adam that all Claudius cares about is his well-being. Then I started thinking, and I realized that all everyone in Elsinore cares about is their own well-being.
Claudius realizes that this world is dog-eat-dog, so in order to get ahead, sometimes you have to play dirty. Maybe Old Hamlet deserved it, maybe not. I think he also realizes that people are only in it for themselves and that (sort of) justifies his brother's murder. Jealousy was probably a major motive for him, too. I mean, doesn't everybody want what they don't have? I think that Claudius is a lot like Fortinbras, in that they are both "doers" and not thinkers, like Hamlet. But unlike Fortinbras, Claudius puts thought into his actions, making him the "ultimate" man in the play. Plus, his deliberation is a great advantage, because that makes him appear to be a great leader. (I haven't decided whether or not he actually is) As for his marriage to Gerdy, I guess he just thought if it's there, you might as well take it. Well, I think that pretty much sums it up.
Layla Church Period Six
ps. Mr. Godburn- I'm sorry for calling Claudius a you-know-what. What I meant to say was that he is extremely gluttonous.
I think Claudius' possible justification would be that he felt he was better suited to be king, than Hamlet. He probably thinks that the nation needs someone with his political mindset in order to progress. So to feel less guilty he probably tells hiimself that by killing King Hamlet, he was really just saving the nation from going down.
--Elita Hemmati
Period 4
Love can make people do anything in order to be with one the one they love. I think the whole reason Claudius killed the king was because he wanted his wife. They might have been having an affair, the queen and Claudius, and Claudius found the queen did not love the king anymore. Claudius told her to run away with him and she said no because she still wanted to be the queen and have power and mentioned to Claudius they could only truly be together if the king was not around and some how Claudius could become king so she could stay king. Claudius's willingness to be with the queen and his true love for her made him think of a plan, and it was to kill the king. No one would think it was him for he was his brother and if he ended up with the queen which he wanted then he would just say that someone had to take his place. Claudius knew the hardest battle would be to win over Hamlet because he knew the kingdom was so corrupt that they did not really matter to him. Claudius knew he could win him over just like his mother but that was not so. So Claudius got a plan to kill the king with poison in order to be with his love the queen.
Laura Lascoe
Period 6
Claudius feels guilty about the murder but he also feel justified most likely because he thinks he will make a better king. He seems to think he is clever and is obviosly good at manipulating people and getting them to do what he wants. he might have killed the king, in his mind, as a way to help the people. Maybe Clauduis thinks that he is saving Elsinore from a crazy war loving king.
Sami Gross per 4
I don't think that Claudius has any remorse for what he did besides the fact that Hamlet has figured out he is guilty for sure. Because Claudius is a party kind of man he is the kind of person who loves power and being praised and being able to do what he wants when he wants, so imagine his fustration with his brother in the spotlight. I dont think he feels guilty, i just think he's pissed that people are going to find out about it if he does not stop hamlet.
Emily Gold pd. 4
The tyrant thing has some sense to it...We know that he was a warrior king and it is common in history for tyrants and military power to go hand in hand. Also the fact that Hamlet was the only one mourning over his father's death. If his father was so great a king then wouldn't everyone mourn for him?
We are getting the entire play in Hamlet's point of view and to Hamlet it probably doesn't matter what his dad did, he will still have a love for him just like he has for his mom.
I think Paulonius makes an good point that since Claudius is the younger brother, he is just out of the spotlight. We know that Old Hamlet was getting well...old and I agree that Claudius saw that he is getting old and he knew that Hamlet would be next in line so he probably didn't want to waste any more time and cut in line.
Norbert Per 6
(post this one.. sorry about double posting my browser messed up)
I think maybe Claudius was jealous to the point that maybe he was crazy. Possibly his jealousy drove him to think that Gertrude was being mistreated by Old Hamlet and he felt justified in "freeing" her from him.
Another possibility is that he believed that he was destroying so many other nations and causing so many wars that he was killing their relations with neighboring places, and in order for the nation to become somewhat of a peaceful nation would be for the king to fall, and he may have wanted to take power to enact his ideas
Either of those seems plausible although if he truly believed it were right he would not be so sorry and guilty about it. If it were truly right it would feel justified, and Claudius would not regret it.
Michael Tarlow Per. 6
P.S. Buy "Stop The Clocks" its a good compilation.
I think the only way Claudius would see what he did as the right thing to do, is by saying he did it because of some hidden family issues with him and Old Hamlet as children and how Old Hamlet always got the attention and the good toys. This is Claudius' way of saying it's his turn for the attention and he wants all the possessions that Old Hamlet acquired. I do believe Claudius did love his brother, but after many years of suppression and then having to serve him, I think Envy took control.
Ariyani Wray
Per. 6
I think that as children, Old Hamlet was always the favorite, and Claudbod was ignored. Over the years Old Hamlet was always successful in his works and Claud was always second. This reminds me of Everybody Loves Raymeod ^_^. In his mind it is just, because he views himself as better than Old Hamman. I can understand his frustration and the anger that may have been built up inside him for many years.
Brian Hosseiniyar
Per.6
Dude... I totally did it... and it felt awsome. It was just so liberating, ya know? I mean, your mother couldn't even stand the man anymore. At least, I show her a good time. For instance, Hamlet never took her dancing in the last decade... We went three times this week. And no offense to your dad, but he was like, a total war monger. All he cared about was killing. He even killed Fortinbras... that dude was cool, he taught me to tango. But don't you think this does more good than bad? I mean, sure, it sucks I caled your father, my brother, but still, at least I'm moving this country out of its war-torn past. These are the '80s now, Hammy. War is sooo '60s. We had to get with the times, and the only way I could do it was by taking the throne. Sure, I feel a little bad, but you know what? We would have had bounties on our heads had I not taken us out of war. Alright, later Hammy, I'm gonna go play some DDR with Mom.
Adam Jacobs
Per 6
I servived the road to the printer
Brad Goran-- Period 6
I think that there can be a couple of reasons why Claudius thinks he was right in his decision. This idea that Old Hamlet was this warrior king, and was someone who basically was ready to fight at the drop of a dime is very prominent in his character. Meanwhile, we see Claudius who puts up a strong front, but in the end just tip toes around situations and has (or at least had) Polonius do his bidding. He himself is almost like the exact opposite of his brother. With such differing personalities it's no wonder that Claudius killed Old Hamlet. And it's also pretty safe to assume that Claudius thought that he was the better personality of the two and the better fit for the kingdom. We might not be able to specify things down to an exact incident but given the overall behavioral patterns of both characters, it seems reasonable that one might do something drastic against the other.
At this point Claudias is showing no remosrse for killing his brother but he may feel some guilt nagging him that he ignors to pursue his goal of taking over the role of the king. he is concentrated on tkaing everything away from his brothers life.
the crown, his wife, his country, and obviously his life. He does this by convincing himself that the old king was a terrible man who deserved his fate. By justifying this ruthless murder Claudias is able to live with himself and accept his horrible crime even believing he was rigrhtand that he will be a far better king than his brother.
stephanie stone
per 6
Claudius killed Old King Hamlet for no reason other than to get to the top of the royal ladder. Claudius is a man with no heart and is obviously willing to kill the king in order to get closer to kingship. He was not thinking about the well being of Denmark when he commited this murder, he was only thinking of himself as usual.
....Jason Cordova per.4
i think claudius's actions came out of jealousy. Of course he would feel jealous, his brother had everything he wanted, the throne, gertrude. also, he feels like its wrong to give the throne to someone who has been in elsinore for many years earlier and feels like he may be a more powerful leader.
imraan shirazi
per.4
I think Claudius feels that he may have done the right thing because Old Hamlet may not have been a good King. From what we know of him, he seems a little egotistical. Maybe he was too power hungry and didnt take care of the people. I think Old Hamlet cared more about power than he did anything else and thats why Claudius feels he did the right thing. On the contrary, Claudius seems to be doing the exact same thing as King. He hasnt given thought to anything that concerns the people. He only cares about himself.
Tori Cusick, period 4 =)
I believe claudius feels remorse for actions now that hamlet knows he killed his father. I also believe that claudius know what he did was wrong but the fact is he does not care. He enjoys scoring with his brothers wife and being aking despite the fact that he had to murder his brother to get there.
Claudius' point of view is that of a stupid person. He thinks that all will be fine after he kills his brother and marries his step-sister. They dont even have forensics back then and I guarantee someone could have figured that Claudius killed him. Anyone with common sense that is. Anyways, I think Claudius' motive was the fact that he could have the two things he wanted the most; Gertrude and Kingship. In the beginning he might have thought that his plan would be flawless, but when Hamlet intervenes and Claudius' true sins come out, i guess you could say, "all hell breaks loose."
P.S. I really hope that when we write an essay on Hamlet that it will be free choice. I really enjoy this play and would enjoy the freedom to express my own Hamletology so i could finally get an "A" on an essay in high school. Thanks dude.
Peace out.
Miles Silverstein
Period 4
its really late too
Claudius feels that killing his own brother was the right thing to do probably because he felt that he would make the better king and that the only for him to get with Gertrude was to kill Old Hamlet. The only reason he feels guilty about his the death of his brother is because he fears of what God might do to him.
Phillip Wang
Period 4
Claudius thinks he did the right thing because he wanted power; there's no real justification. Like most people in power or near power they want more and are ruthless when it comes to getting it. Claudius doesn't need a logical explanation why it was right for him to kill his brother because it is in his personlity to just go after what is wanted without any moral regard. He feels guilty, he did kill his own brother, but if he were not the king's brother but simply a man in some powerful position wanting more power I don't think he would feel much guilt at all.
Jillian Porter
Period 4
I think Claudius murdered Old Hamlet to get ahead, and that he was jealous of his power...i mean come on, it's pretty easy to believe a man can b jealous of his brother when his brother happens to rule a KINGDOM!
in retrospect however, i think Claudius may regret the act, though he is still too greedy to give away his crown...i can imagine him taking a "i wish i didnt do it, but its too late now so i shouldnt let it go to waste" philosophy on the issue
-Casey Covello
In character:
Hamlet simply doesn't know how much better I am as King. Old Hamlet's death was a necessary evil, and one that has benefited me and Denmark. My intelligence, my political finesse, and my true right to rulership as son of the older King all qualify me above him. Being a second child is like being tossed aside as a lesser man, which I most certainly am not. And the way he treated his wife is so stiff-necked and almost downright cruel! Gertrude and I are so much happier together, and it's about time Denmark had a bit of liveliness pumped back into it.
Alex Ringe
Period 6
Similar to Shakespeare’s other murdering antagonists (i.e., Brutus to Caesar and Othello to Desdemona), Claudius kills his brother believing that he has done something good; that he has saved the kingdom form a worse evil. It’s only natural that Claudius feels guilty. After all, it was his brother. Although he believes that he would make a better ruler than his brother, Claudius isn’t content to let Gertrude suffer a life of loneliness simply because of her husband’s misdirected ambitions. Why should she suffer more than what she already has with a man less a bedfellow than a monarch--more married to his throne than to her.
Claudius is sincere in his concern for his nephew, now son, Hamlet. If the boy (whom he underestimated) didn’t stir up doubt in the minds of the king’s subjects, then Claudius would have been able to concentrate more on being a father than an enemy to him. He wanted Hamlet to accept him as his new father. He wanted him to move on with life, and not be so depressed all the time. He wanted to think about getting on with being king rather than having his character and integrity shadowed by suspicion.
Landon Ball (L-Ball)
Period # 4
Claudius feels very powerful due to his actions. Although he feels somewhat guilty for killing his brother, the positives of this action greatly outweigh the negatives. Claudius feels that he deserves to be the king and that the date of his birth should not decide whether or not he becomes king. He also may be very jealous of King Hamlet driving him to murder him. Claudius also feels that he can do a much better job as king which in a way justifies his actions.
Michael Ashoori
Period 4
Claud new what the consequences of Killing old Hamlet would be, he’s not that stupid! Killing your own brother isn’t something you do on a whim, it was well planned, and Claud must of had good motives to do such a thing. Even if he is the bad guy in the play, he isn’t “evil,” he’s just selfish. As often seen in presidencies, the vice president is, or often feels like he is the mind behind the face that gets all the credit. This reflects the relationships siblings have as children, and sometimes as adults as well. Feeling like their sibling gets all the credit for your combined accomplishments. I think that this type of jealousy could very well of been one of the reasons that Claud decided to kill Old Ham. It seems to me that Claud has always been in Elsinore, close to the monarchy, and I presume that he advised Old Ham about various things, just as brothers do. Also the jealousy of being King that everybody seems to have written about. Anybody would want to be King right? You get the power, the money, the respect, and the queen!
The sacrifice/risk that Claud took is worth the possible consequences to him, I don’t necessarily think that he thinks he was right in committing this murder, but more so feels that it needed to be done for his own sake, and doesn’t regret it, at least not yet.
Hannah Kaufman Per. 6
the reason that cluadias probably killed the king was becauese the king was doing very bad economicly
and probably did not do a very good
job as the king and Claudias might of thought he could do better
David Betshmuel
per4
I think Claudias killed his brother out of jealousy and hatred. His brother was everything he wasn't. Claudias obviously wasn't married. He wasn't king, he didn't seem to be anything to special. So Claudias killed old Hamlet in order to be better or at least as good as he was. Claudias was simply jealous of what he had and he hated him for having it when Claudias didn't.
-Heather Gossler
pd. 4
Claudius is insanely jealous of his brother so he offs him...im sure everyone feels jealousy towards their siblings every once in a while..I know I do and it's not just because I'm a twin...it's everyone. Claudius wants power and to finally not be compared to his brother. His brother would have always been above him if he didn't do something about it. Although I understand how he must have felt, I don't think killing your big brother or sister is the way to do it. I wonder what would have happened if they tried talking about it? haha
~erin carmody~
(sorry for such a late post... I was absent and comepletely lost for a while)
I think the only reason Claudius feels bad about killing Old Hamlet is because he's beginning to feel threatened. He knows Hamlet knows. Claudius was trying his best to pass off what he was doing as normal. Whether or not it was working is up for debate. The point is that someone knows, and not just anyone, but the only person who could defeat him. He wanted to seem like the better king, while still not doing anything at all to deserve that title. Instead, he was trying to persuade the kingdom, rather than prove to them. Hamlet is the only thing in his way. I don't think Claudius had anything against his brother as a person nor as a king, but he wanted to conquer. He wanted the power and fame. He wanted to go down in the book for something and took drastic measures to get there. Instead of becoming the forgotton brother, he will go down as a foolish king.
-sam canez
per 4
again, sorry for the late post.
<< Home