Eat A Crocodile. . . EAT IT!!!
I've gotta admit that I'm getting kind of sad that we're almost finished with this play. You all have been so great, and I get a feeling that we've genuinely enjoyed ourselves doing this. I'm going to retreat into denial while you ponder the following question:
Did Hamlet really love Ophelia? Is his demonstration true? Or is this Hamlet playing the PART of the the rightful king? Judging by all you have read so far, all the interaction between Hamlet and Ophelia, tell me your thoughts.
NOTE TO PERIOD FOUR STUDENTS: Something I missed in class-- when Laertes jumps into the grave, he ALSO curses Hamlet. Not by name, but rather by cursing "the one who did this to you." (a paraphrase). This might figure into your assessment of Hamlet's performance once he reveals himself in the cemetary.
This will be due before 11AM on Tuesday.
Be Brilliant!
Did Hamlet really love Ophelia? Is his demonstration true? Or is this Hamlet playing the PART of the the rightful king? Judging by all you have read so far, all the interaction between Hamlet and Ophelia, tell me your thoughts.
NOTE TO PERIOD FOUR STUDENTS: Something I missed in class-- when Laertes jumps into the grave, he ALSO curses Hamlet. Not by name, but rather by cursing "the one who did this to you." (a paraphrase). This might figure into your assessment of Hamlet's performance once he reveals himself in the cemetary.
This will be due before 11AM on Tuesday.
Be Brilliant!
posted by Ian Anthony Godburn at 8:06 PM
33 Comments:
I for one feel that to an extent Hamlet's show of emotions in the grave were real. He did tell Ophelia that he did love her and it was hard for him to tell her to go away until she lied to (spying part). Although Hamlet never forgave Ophelia, I don't think that he could change to such a deep hate so suddenly. The way he treated Ophelia when she was around was probablly because she was around. He could see her aNd recall what she did, but he never took into account her dying. Her not being around. Now that she is gone reality sets in more for Hamlet about death and how cruely he treated her. So the other part to the show of emotion is guilt. I think the "the Dane!" came out of his mouth to put an emphasis on the importance of his love and feelings. Hamlet the KING is mourning, not just Hamlet.
Did Hamlet love Ophelia...I think he did. In the beginning of the play it seemed that they loved each other, well atleast from the words of Ophelia to Polonius. Then there were those private letters that Ophelia tried to give back to Hamlet while Claudius and Polonius were spying on him. I believe that Hamlet probably felt more hurt when Ophelia lied to him about the spying scene than her actually breaking up with him. All those mean things Hamlet said to Ophelia was only noted when he knew Polonius was near to hear. (i.e. the spying scene and the starting of the mousetrap) BUT I think it is kind'a weird that Hamlet only comes into the funeral scene when Laertes curses him. I would have thought as soon as Laertes mentioned that it was his sister, Ophelia, Hamlet would have jumped in. Even so i think Hamlet truely loved Ophelia.
Ariyani Wray
Per. 6
I think Hamlet really did love Ophelia and his demonstration was indeed true because the only person in the whole play with whom Hamlet is 100% honest is Horatio, so since Horatio was the only person present at Hamlet's demonstrations I feel it safe to conclude that he was indeed genuine in his pained surprise at the knowledge of his love's death. His respect for her may have diminished after he saw what a willing pawn she became in Polonius and Claudius' game, but i am sure that he did indeed love her and her betrayal struck him deeply and perhaps because of that he was so sarcastic and mocking to polonius.
-masha telishevsky
period 6
Hamlet liked Ophelia, enjoyed being in her presence, and liked having someone who cared for him, but I do not think that Hamlet actually loved her. He could have shown emotion, other than anger, to her. Back when he was still in Denmark and before she died, he treated her horribly. This could have been because he felt betrayed by her and it could have been just because they grew apart, but he never showed to her that he loved her. During her funeral, the only reason why Hamlet jumps out is because his emotions and feelings must overpower those of Laertes. His fiasco during her funeral had nothing to do with her whatsoever.
So my answer to the question is: no. Hamlet does not really love Ophelia because Hamlet is only capable of loving himself.
One more thing! After thinking about Hamlet's attitude towards everyone else, I came to a conclusion. Although Hamlet has Fortenbraus and Horatio as his foils, I believe that the person most similar to Hamlet in this play is none other than Claudius. (for multiple reasons)
1. They both only care about themselves, and don't consume themselves in other people's feelings or emotions.
2. They both want to be king.
3. They both want to kill the other, and don't care who dies in the process.
4. They both lose one of their friends... Hamlet - Ophelia... Claudius - Polonius.
5. They both part in one of their most important relationships... Hamlet - Horatio... Claudius - Old Hamlet.
6. Foreshadow - they will probably both wind up dead.
Shane Z. Period 4
Brad Goran- period 6
I think that it can safely be assumed that Hamlet did really love Ophelia based on the way that he reacted once he figured out that Ophelia was dead. Hamlet was so upset that he lunged into a grave and showed all of his emotions. He couldn't play any games because he was so overwhelmed by her death that he couldn't act and couldn't control himself. He might have wanted her in the game, but at the same time Hamlet didn't want it to go so far. He also went back to playing his game afterwards showing how this one subject in particular struck a cord with him.
I think that, as much as Hamlet could, he loved Ophelia. Thing is, Hamlet had soooo much other stuff to deal with, romantic affairs suddenly became quite unimportant. Hamlet's having exitential debates, trying to control everyone, convincing himself that an apparition's command for murder is valid, and suddenly he's supposed to watch out to not hurt Ophelia's feelings?
Don't get me wrong, I definitely feel for Ophelia. (There's a song called "Turn Soonest to the Sea" by Protest the Hero that faces themes like hers). She is absolutely trodden upon by practically every male in this play, Hamlet being no exception. However, as insensitive as it may seem, Hamlet simply had bigger fish to fry.
D. Burris per 4
I think Hamlet liked Ophelia for a while, but then got tired of her. If he really loved her, then he wouldn't have treated her like horse feces. Hamlet truly did love his mother, so he went back to her and showed his former self to her, but he didn't do the same to Ophelia. I definitely think that Hamlet is only saying this so that he can hold his own case against Laertes so that he has a right to fight back.
Adam Jacobs
per 6
I will miss you forever, Hammeister
I believe that Hamlet really did love ophelia at one point in the play, but after she lied to him in the hall Hamlet has lost interest in ophelia. Hamlet even told her that he did once love her. I think that Hamlets demonstration at the graveyard was him just trying to play the part of the rightful king. His reaction at the graveyard was the complete opposite what he has been like around ophelia before she died.
Phillip Wang
Period 4
I think Hamlet thought he loved her. He did have strong feelings for her, I believe that he was genuinely hurt by her betrayal, but judging by his reaction to her death, it’s clear that he doesn’t love her, at least not any more.
He was probably in love with the thought of being with Ophelia the adrenalin of hiding from the eyes of Elsinore, the pleasure of the sex, and having someone really listen to and possibly even understand what he says (this didn’t turn out to be the case, but that probably intrigued him in the beginning).
If he truly loved her he would have been paralyzed in tears when he found out that she was dead, and if he truly loved her throughout the play, nothing else would have mattered to him but her and the play would have been a boring emo love story.
Hannah Kaufman Per. 6
Honestly I hope I’m wrong though, I hope he really did love her and just didn’t know how to handle his love for her.
This is gong to be long, bare with me.
Hamlet did not love Ophelia...I will tell you why. Hamlet gives up hope on Ophelia. The best moment to emphasize this is when Hamlet accosts Ophelia in her bedroom. No words are said and everyone in the audience thinks Hamlet is playing his act but I think there was more. Hamlet was frustrated with Ophelia. We know that he despises people that are not like him or better than him. He realizes she can't be saved.It's over.
If Hamlet really loved Ophelia, wouldn't he have done more to protect her? To try to convert her to his side? Not use her as a tool? To send her a letter also instead of just the King,Queen, and Horatio? Say "Sorry I killed your dad"?
Hamlet is shocked at Ophelia's death because it was someone he knew that was at some point close to him. I also believe that Hamlet thinks Horatio is taking his spotlight. At the start of the play, Hamlet is the only one mourning for his father. This gives Hamlet the sense that he is right and everyone else is wrong. I think it bothers Hamlet feels that Laertes is in a way intruding on his territory. Right before, Hamlet proclaims that he is The Dane.
I think he is at odds with Laertes. Anything Laertes can do Hamlet can do better. Laertes mourns, well so does Hamlet but better. Laertes jumps in the grave, what does Hamlet do? Laertes is an awesome swordsman, well Hamlet thinks he is better.
Norbert Per 6
I do feel that Hamlet did love Ophelia. His only time of showing his love for Ophelia was in the grave though. I think that he loved her throughout the play but could never show it since he was not susposed to show anyone his true feelings or that no one would believe he could ever love her. It is said that you dont no what you've got until you lost it. I think that Hamlet did not realize his true feelings toward her until he actually lost her. He was so wrapped up in killing Claudius for his father and doing right for his country which put Ophelia and his feelings to the side but still knowing she was there. Then when he lost her those loss feelings came back up and he realized she wasnt there anymore and his true self poured out.
Laura Lascoe
Period 6
Tis my opinion that Hamlets love for Ophelia is true. The fact that he jumps in the grave for her shows he loved her. He said he would come back to Denmark "naked", and thats what he did. He drops his act of not noticing her or whatever you want to call it, and shows his true feelings for her. A little too late but at least he is showing his true emotions.
Brian Hosseiniyar
Per6 ^____^
I feel pretty confident here.
There is certainly some chemistry going on between Ophelia and Hamlet – for one thing, she seems to set him off course whenever something has to do with her. Some examples: during his second soliloquy when he drops his antic disposition and ends up letting loose on Ophelia, or more recently at her grave site where he makes exaggerated statements of his dedicated love towards her. On the other hand, he uses her as a tool in a cold and calculating way earlier in the play to get to Polonius and the King and convince them he's mad over her. Taking a very holistic view, however, I think we can say that he does actually love her. The mood I get out of Hamlet is a sort of “I'm too good for her” arrogance, yet we know he cares enough for her to the point that his emotions take over his intellect. Which brings me to the idea of emotions vs. intellect – could his emotions be the love and care for Ophelia, while the intellect dismisses her as extra baggage? And don't we already know that during the graveyard act, he comes to Denmark “naked” and without conflict or deceptions? I'm thinking that during these last few acts, he's finally the real Hamlet – decisive in his plan to kill Claudius, at peace with himself, free from deceptions, and ultimately at a balance between his emotions and intellect – showing that he does actually love her.
Alex Ringe
P. 6
I think theres a very big difference between caring about someone and loving them. In the case of Ophelia and Hamley, I think that Hamlet cared about Ophelia very much but I dont think he loved her. I think Hamlet loved spending time with her and loved the idea of having Ophelia around (for more than just to talk ;] ) But the way he treated Ophelia, regardless of whether or not there was an explanation behind it, shows that he didnt actually love Ophelia.
Tori Cusick, period 4
In my opinion, I feel that Hamlet did not truly love Ophelia. I feel that Hamlet did have feelings for her more than that of a friend but nothing close to true love. During Hamlet's "relationship" with Ophelia it almost seemed as if he was using her. Another reason why I feel that Hamlet did not love Ophelia was because it was so easy for him to kill her father but if he truly loved her he would not do anything to jeopardize their relationship. I believe that Hamlet's sole reason for making a scene at the funeral was to "out-grieve" Laertes rather than to show the love that he had for her.
Michael Ashoori
Period-4
I think Hamlet loves the potential him and ophelia had more than he actually loved Ophelia.Their relationship was always controversial and Ophelia through out the extent of the relationship with Hamlet was still controlled by her father who, as we all know, was not very fond of Hamlet. Hamlet and Ophelia's relationship never had the chance to become what Hamlet probally dreamed it would be. On top of it, Ophelia ends up stabbing Hamlet in the back. So, at the grave site, Hamlet unleashes all of his dreams onto the dead ophelia that disapointed him so. Hamlet saw potential, as he does in all people, and laments over the disapointment they all bring.
Jillian Porter
Period 4
I think Hamlet loved Ophelia, but not love as in love love love.
Hamlet was just overreacting on saying he would prove to show everyone he truely loved her.
But, I feel that was all an act because it seemed like Hamlet was too interested in his father's death and other bad things that he had no time for Ophelia. So yeah.
Dani Schwartz
Period 6
I believe that Hamlet really did love Ophelia. Even though he basically terrorizes her through out the play, I think he did this just so she would believe his act. I think he treated her badly because when he was around her maybe he felt sorry for treating her the way he did and having to let her go.
carly lepp period 6
I feel that Hamlet never liked someone as much as he liked Ophelia. However, i do not think he loved. He may have confused these strong feelings of liking for her for love, but i think Hamlet wold later meet someone who he actually loved. He left Elsinore and didn't come back for Ophelia, he came for Claudius and to fight for himself, not to fight for Ophelia. He is very self-cenetered and i think if he actually loved Ophelie he would show it, and try to earn her love.
On second thought, you dont know how much you love someone until their gone. This might be the case for him and Ophelia. Now that Ophelia has passed, he seems to care for her much more.
Now that's brilliance!
Jordan Rothstein
P.4
Hamlet did really love Ophelia.
Ophy rocked his world.
They couldn't have a real relationship becuase of that awful Polonius. It was hard for Hamlet to love someone who dumped him for her father.
Because of what Hamlet was going through, aka, to revenge his father's death, Hamlet couldn't really express to Ophy his true feelings.
SHOUT OUT TO SHAZI, ITS HER BIRTHDAY YO, CAN I GET A WHAT WHAT!
DANI SAYS RELAX!
JENNY LAVAN PERIOD 6, SIX, SEIS, SHESH, TUNMU, séa á~
roses are red violets are blue hamlet used ophelia and you would to. hamlet did love her once, before he had seen his fathers ghost. afterward hamlet decided to act crazy and used her as a pawn. the only reason hamlet freaked when she died is because he had declared him self king, and a kings duty is to "care" for everyone. philip lucas per 4
I don't think that Hamlet loved Ophelia at all. He used her just like everyone else in the play. Hamlet just liked Ophelia because he wanted to have sex with her to be honest. He then went "mad" and used her again and made her go crazy. Hamlet does not show affection for anybody in the play except himself. The only one that is close is his father. He wants to kill Claudius because of hate. That is why I think Hamlet does not love Ophelia.
-Russell Tuchman
-Per. 4
I dont think that Hamlet actually loved Ophelia. Before Ophelia died he never seemed to show any genuine emotion for her. The only times he showed affection for her is when he knows he is being watched. Hamlet also hurt Ophelia a great deal, and is very responsible for her emotional instability. It is possible that Hamlet loved Ophelia before his father was killed and all that crazy stuff happened, but at the graveyard i don't think Hamlet has any love left for her.
Eric Singer
Period 6
I think that Hamlet is faking his love
for ophelia, but his demonstration of
kingship is good becuase he shows a
love and respect for his people like
and he is also assuming that he will
soon rule like whe he called himself
'' the Dane''
David Bet-shmuel
period 4
I really dont think that Hamlet loved Ophelia. I agree with Paul Testa in that Hamlet has used Ophelia just as he used everyone in the play for the betterment of his position in the Royal Castle. I think Hamlet was very good at faking his love for her, and has treated her in a way that no one who loves someonelse would. He showed that he loved her, but did he love her as a person or JUST love sleeping with her? I think that he should just win an Aademy Award for his LOVE" for Ophelia.
- Jason Cordova per.4
I really do think that Hamlet loved Opelia he just couldnt show it while he was pretending to be crazy. he didnt want the king and hes mother to think that Ophelia was related to his madness. I also may have seemed like he didnt love her because he was so mad at her for betraying and lying to him. When ihe jumps in the grave with laeretes i dont think he is putting on an act but is actually overcome with sadness and maybe anger at himself for bringing Ophelia to killng herself.
Im not really convinced that Hamlet really did love Ophelia. True love doesn't allow you to degrade someone in the ways that Hamlet did to Ophelia. I think it was more of the shock of her being dead that made him feel regret. He always thought that one day he could apologize for the way he acted. He will never get the chance to tell her he's sorry. He takes this regret as love. I think when he names off all the things he'd do for her, eat a crocodile ect., he really would do those things to take back the way he treated her. He feels uilty and wants to take it back. I'm no so sure he was would have wanted to marry her though.
sam canez period 4
I feel that Hamlet really did love Ophelia because his performance was so real and unimprovised. It seemed as if after he revealed himself, his words poured out from deep within his soul, instead of off the top of his head. Before Hamlet and Ophelia knew what real pain and heartbreak was like, they were ungreatful for eachother, instead of embracing their true love. They were mere children playing a game and did not know what they were doing. Ophelia's realization of her love for Hamlet came when he was banned from Elsinore. Hamlet's was when he saw Ophelia in her grave. It took all of that heartache and tragedy just for them to realize how much they cared for one another, which I think is ridiculous. It should not of had to go as far as death for them to realize something so blatantly obvious, therefore showing how corrupt and oblivious their kingdom and everyone in it is.
Tara Miller
Period 6
I think that at one point, yes Hamlet did love Ophelia, and I don't think that his love for her ever fully went away. I do believe though that just like in normal relationships, Ophelia's betrayal turned him off, and had him second guessing his love for her. In addition to turning him off, I think he was also angry with himself for falling into her trap, and so his negative behavior towards her was really just him angry at himself for loving such a fool. I think he tried to get over Ophelia, but a part of him still loves her and all of that was evident during his blow up.
--Elita Hemmati, p.4
i submitted 1 at lunch today but forgot my name!
Sami G
I think that Hamlet really did love Ophelia for the most part. After finding out that she lied to him his love for her began to deteriorate throughout the play. When she dies he shows false emotion to compensate for the way he treated her leading up to her death. Once reality sets in Hamlet lets go of his anger towards her and his love for her returns while he mourns.
stephanie stone
per. 6
I feel that Hamlet did not LOVE Ophelia. I think it was more of a lust and something they he believed to be love. If he did truly love her I do not think he would have treated her the way he did. There is no hint to the play that Hamlet has been with many women. If he has not been with other woman, how does he know whether or not he loves her. One needs expiernce before being able to decide on a matter as such. It could have very well been a lust thing going on. The only reason Hamlet comes out so strong in ACT 5 the way he did was just to make a point and also to kind of take the oppurtunity to show the king that he is here.
I think Hamlet truly loved Ophelia at one point; but somewhere along the way (most likely when she proved she could no longer be trusted) he 're-evaluated his relationship' with her and realised that he had no idea why he loved her. And Hamlet(Mr. Logical) found that if she hurt him, and he couldn't tell if she loved him, it was worth no onger caring for her intamtely. And finally caring for her only the way he could phatham: as a subject of Denmark.
Shiloh Stone
Period 4
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