Grab Bag
The above picture is what I think the Ghost should look like.
First and foremost, I'm impressed with how this blog is working out. I feel it is sort of a lasting discussion about the play we read in class. I especially enjoy those of you who give me reflection and commentary that is indicative of deep thought and consideration.
On that note, here's what I want you to do.
Go back and reread all my posts. Consider the things I have asked you, or the points that I have made. Then comb through the comments. Identify a comment that stands out to you, one you agree with and would like to expand upon, one you disagree with vehemently, or one that you thought you agreed with before, but have since changed your mind.
Copy the comment. Make sure to identify the writer and what the original post was.
Then, respond. Expand, argue, criticize in a civil and constructive way. Your comment will be meant to spur other comments. Hopefully, we will then isolate some central questions or debates we have about this play.
I will post some especially good comments that you may then address specifically.
Get your comments in early so we can have some good discussion.
This is an all weekend thing. Be brilliant.
posted by Ian Anthony Godburn at 10:23 AM
39 Comments:
This is from David C. Dorsey from the "Rank and Unweeded Garden" post...
All the characters seem to play a facade. Nobody appears thus far to be real, or truthful, and could eminetly cause their downfall. Polonius' true colors are shown through his speach to Laertes. He suggests that Laertes does many things to not be "who he is" yet still be true to himself. Claudius is concerned much more with what people think, than who he is a character. Hamlet goes along with the way things are, and this could later present problems for him.
I agree with Double D because he mentioned how everyone puts up a facade-portraying that everyone is hiding something and no one is being true to who they are. Everyone is hiding behind a secret.
Claudius killed his brother
Hamlet knows about his fathers death
Hamlet can't tell anyone
Jenny La Van has a wicked flu
period 6
As of right now in Norway, things are definately not what they seem. Polonius shows that he deserves to be king and that he wants Hamlet around, but inside he could care less for Hamlet and knows he does not deserve to be king. He and the queen both seem to be mourning but they really do not care that Old Hamlet died. Young Hamlet is really the only mourner for his father at this time, and because of this... he stays in Norway and lies saying that he will please her (but not in THAT way because Claudius already has that covered). In 1.iii, Polonius shows to his son that appearance is all that matters in their corrupt society. Claudius only wants Hamlet by his side so he can look good for the people of Normway. Hamlet also falls into this trap. He does lie to his mother and Claudius, because he says one thing to them, and in his soliloquy he says something else.
Shane Zazula Period 4
Apart from the fact that he got several names wrong, I do agree with most of what Shane is saying.Though I would like to add onto a few things. Claudius is a politician and is very gifted at saying one thing and meaning another. Its like how Regan was said to be the best man for President because he had already been an actor. Polonius does show more of the concern over appearance in society with the advice he gives his son and also how he treats ophelia. He yells at her saying that her spending too much time with Hamlet could damage his reputation and with no concern to her emotions Polonius forbids ophelia to see Hamlet any more. Finally, Hamlet does put on a good face for his mom and say something else in his soliloquy. Hamlet also fall into the trap of "How do I look ?" by his his constant morning. Instaed of just putting on a good face for show and then later screamimg his head off, Hamlet refuses to dress in anything but black and he refuses to allow anyone to get the inpression that he evem remotly likes Claudius. He does this by saying small insultes. " A little more than kin and a little less than kind."
In "The Mousetrap" post, I agreed with what Brad had said about Gertrude:
"2. Gertrude's comment is intended to show many things, the first being that she sees Hamlet trying to have a character like Gertrude on stage. Now this is why I think we can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Gertrude is indeed in denial. Her ability to acknowledge the fact that her son is trying to represent her character, and Gertrude's refusal to even acknowledge that the player queen is even a bit like her is perplexing. It shows the extreme degree of denial she is truly in."
At first I thought she was completely oblivious to everything going on around her and I wasn't sure how to even answer the question on the post. I think Brad makes a logical point that she reveals herself in that one line. Especially now that I think back on the movie, the queen is sort of uncomfortable in that scene but I imagine everyone is. Also she admits the things that she did wrong it was kind of like she knew that she was doing all these bad things but she just kind of wanted to pretend that it isn't really happening, which is why I think she got so upset when Hamlet reminded her of what she did.
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For my disagreement I chose E.gilz. I'm not sure if thats a name but anyone who say "booyakasha" is worth giving some attention to. This is from the post "O cursed Spite"...
"1. The ghost is more an evil symbol than an honest one because it is proving hamlet right about everything he was thinking. both hamlet and the ghost say that Claudius is "incestuous" and that his "shameful lust" seduced the queen. this repetition of thoughts makes hamlet believe the ghost is truley his father, and therefore believe anything it says. even MURDER."
I really did not see the ghost as an evil symbol. It was almost a savior to Hamlet, coming in right after his first soliloquy where Hamlet is ready to kill himself. I feel that the ghost gives Hamlet purpose because imagine what would happen if the ghost never showed up. The ghost wants no harm to Gertrude. Wouldn't an evil ghost want to kill Gertrude as well for marrying Claudius and betraying him? It reminds me of when Hamlet tells Polonius to be kind to the players especially if they don't deserve kindness. Gertrude goes off to make incentuous love with Old Hamlet's brother and murderer and Old Hamlet tells Hamlet not to harm her and even comes in to stop Hamlet when he goes too far. The ghost only wants to be avenged...that is all. If it was an evil ghost I don't think it would care about anyone or anything.
Norbert Per 6
Near the end of October, Mr. Godburn posted a comment about how Hamlet must put on an antic disposition so people do not find him threatening. This is about the same time where we wonder if the ghost is evil or is really OLD HAMLET. Then he asks if Hamlet has fallen into the trap of deception and dissembling. Evan G. posted about how Hamlet must kill Claudius because the ghost said to. Hamlet does not want to and is now put in a bad situation.
Evan said:
"hamlet seems to be falling into a trap because his father, or the ghost, is basically telling him what to do. Hamlet really has no other choice but to murder his uncle when Old Hamlet says "if thou didst ever thy dear father love, revenge his foul and most unnatural murder". this forces hamlet to do something he might not have done if the ghost wasn't there.
1. The ghost is more an evil symbol than an honest one because it is proving hamlet right about everything he was thinking. both hamlet and the ghost say that Claudius is "incestuous" and that his "shameful lust" seduced the queen. this repetition of thoughts makes hamlet believe the ghost is truly his father, and therefore believe anything it says. even MURDER."
At the beginning of this play, I agreed with almost all of what Evan says (How Hamlet is only killing Claudius because his father said to). I wouldn't have agreed about the ghost being an evil symbol... but then again, it was way too early to really tell.
Now I believe that it is pretty clear that the ghost was honest. He confirmed Hamlet's fear about Claudius. But after seeing Hamlet's reaction, I believe that Hamlet was not put in any position at all. He originally thought that Claudius kill Old Hamlet. He knows that the ghost could possibly not be his father. And even if Hamlet did not find the evidence he needed to believe that Claudius really killed Old Hamlet, Hamlet would have still been furious will Claudius for taking his position as king and marrying his mother.
Hamlet is not trying to kill Claudius because his father says to, he is doing it because he wants to. Hamlet is so into it now, that it is no longer about his father. Also, after so long of Hamlet putting on his antic disposition, I think he eventually started going a little crazy. I don't believe that he is acting this whole time.
So my conclusion is that I changed my mind about Hamlet needing to kill Claudius for his father. It seems to me that Hamlet's emotions have gotten the better of him.
- Shane Z.
Period 4
In " Cruel To Be Kind," Shane said...
1. Honestly, I don't think I would change much about Polonius's death. I feel that the director hit the nail on the dot. I would make Hamlet enraged, in an absolute fit. He is always overdrammatic... why deviate? I like how Polonius was literally "hiding in the curtains". Hamlet, thinking that it was Claudius, kills Polonius instead, because of his rage. It is a perfect way to kill him off because Polonius is hiding from the situation... again. I also like how Hamlet could care less about accidentally killing the wrong man... it really shows how much he dislikes Polonius.
2. We barely see Ophelia and Polonius in the same scene. I can only remember when she is shaken up by Hamlet, and Polonius is trying to care but just can't. (But Polonius IS her father...)
Ophelia would say - Dear, sweet, innocent father.
I would say - Old, hypocritical, useless fishmonger.
I think that Gertrude cannot see the ghost because the ghost only comes to speak with Hamlet and protect her. Hamlet is much rasher to Gertrude than what the ghost wanted, and he must remind Hamlet what he was supposed to do. Another reason why she might not be able to see him is because she has already forgot about him. She was so quick to marry his brother, after his death. She forgot about their love so quickly, and it looks like she also has forgotten him. If she still loved him, maybe she would be able to see the ghost.
I like Shane's ideas in this post, especially because of his answer to #2. He says that Ophelia would think of her father as "Dear, sweet, [and] innocent." I think this becomes evident after Polonius' death, because in Act IV, scene V, Ophelia's cheese has clearly slipped off her cracker. In other words, her father's death has affected her so emotionally that she has become unstable and incoherent. This is most likely because she truly felt he was a kind and protective father, and without this crutch she's lost her mind.
In regards to #1, I once again agree that the play portrayed Hamlet's attack on Polonius very accurately to reflect our current understanding of the characters' personalities. Another thing I would like to add to this is the queen's reactions before and after Hamlet's attack on Polonius. I think it's important to note her distrust of Hamlet, and her belief that he's gone insane - she is so deep in these beliefs that she screams that he is going to murder her!
For #3, the idea that Gertrude cannot see the ghost because she was so quick to marry Claudius is something I did not touch upon in my response to this question - but I think it's a very valid point. Gertrude clearly has abandoned old Hamlet to the point that she has to be verbally abused by her own son in order to have it dawn on her that she has betrayed her old husband. The only problem with it is this - Gertrude admits that Hamlet has "turn'st [her] eyes into [her] very soul, and there [she] sees such black and grained spots as will not leave their tinct," yet she still can't see the ghost after admitting this. Either she can't see the ghost because she doesn't actually believe Hamlet, or she can't see the ghost simply because Hamlet himself has gone insane.
Good stuff.
Alex Ringe
Period 6
I agreed with David Dorsey on the "Rank and Unweeded Garden post"-
All the characters seem to play a facade. Nobody appears thus far to be real, or truthful, and could eminetly cause their downfall. Polonius' true colors are shown through his speach to Laertes. He suggests that Laertes does many things to not be "who he is" yet still be true to himself. Claudius is concerned much more with what people think, than who he is a character. Hamlet goes along with the way things are, and this could later present problems for him.
david dorsey per. 6
I think David is right when he says that all the characters are not being true to who they really are. Throughout the play, it is made clear that Polonius and Cladius only care about reputation. Polonius does this by giving his son advice when he tells him to not show his real side. Claudius is trying to convince the kingdom that everything is normal, even though it is not. Claudius and Polonius are both trying to figure out what is wrong with Hamlet so he does not tarnish their reputation as well. I think David did a good job with foreshadowing Hamlet's actions. While Hamlet did go along with his Uncle's actions in the beginning, we see that after his visit with the ghost, he's definatly about to shake things up in the kingdom.
carly lepp
per 6
In your 'mousetrap!' post I sort of do, sort of don't agree with Sam Baloff about Gertrude's comments about Hamlet's play:
2. I think the queen in the play represents what the queen isnt in real life. She is loyal and the queen sees not herself in the play but what her son wants her to be. I don’t think she is in denial. I think she accepts what she did and may have a little guilt but none the less embrases it.
From that comment I feel that Gertrude doesn't accept what she did. I think she is totally incapable of accepting what happened and she's only trying to make herself feel better by saying mean things about the Queen in the play. All of that guilt inside of her probably wouldnt let her 'accept' it.
Also, Gertrude did love her husband for a while and the queen in the play did too. But, yes she was pretty loyal except the King knew if he ever left, she'd marry someone else so maybe it shows that Gertrude would never had thought of being with someone else if her hubby died, but it really did happen.
And I love how I don't make sense
Dani Schwartz Period 6
ORIGINAL POST: "O, Cursed Spit!"
Original Comment:
1) It just goes to show that the King doesn’t know much about Hamlet, or else he would not put him in a situation where he must do evil (depending on how you view murder), because Hamlet is not like that.
2) He is a scholar, not a killer. He knows right from wrong. He has always looked out for the kingdom, and now he has been put in a position to possibly
harm the country.
3) Its pretty interesting so far. It seems as if we are almost done with the story, but we still have a long way to go.
Brian H. Per.6
My Thoughts:
From the beginning of this play, I thought these same thoughts as well. Now that I have read up to Act IV, I know that many of these reflections are false. First of all, Hamlet does not know himself, therefore there is no way for his father to even guess what kind of person he is. He doesn't know if he is capable of evil or not. Secondly, Hamlet has suddenly been put into a situation where he is obliged to mature and become a man in order to survive. He has NOT always looked out for the kingdom, but now he is forced to. Lastly, the story has become intense and lively, and I feel is just reaching its climax.
Tara Miller
Period 6
I think Landon summed up the "To be or not to be" soliloquy really well:
In the beginning of the play when Hamlet was charged (by the ghost) to avenge his father's death-- but had failed to do so-- this soliloquy represents a self-evaluation of both his character and the ignobility of his cause.
“To be or not to be…” represents the frustration Hamlet feels with his own indecision to take his Uncle’s life in exchange for his father’s. Mingled with his internal struggle are his earlier feelings of depression (prior to his ghostly visit) that lead him to consider suicide, or simply, the value of life when it feels hopeless and without purpose.
I especially love when Hamlet says:
“And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action…”
This suggests that his once-strong conviction (a decision described by color) to kill his uncle is cut down by the thought of when to do it, how to do it, or whether the visit from the ghost was something real enough to act upon. In other words, Hamlet has thought about killing his uncle for so long, that he has over-thought it. He has psyched himself out of the courage necessary to act.
Landon Ball (L-Ball)
period # 4
He barely mentions suicide, thus, understands the point of the famous solilquy. Another good point he makes is that, if there's anything Hamlet's good at, it's overthinking things and psyching himself out. You've mentioned numerous times that the inherent tragedy of Hamlet is Hamlet's desire to control everything, and in many ways this soliloquy is Hamlet's expression of futility and frustration in not having total control-- of himself and those around him.
D. Burris
per 4
In the "O Cursed Spite!" post, I agree and disagree with what David Burris said...
There are a few phenomena that indicate the Ghost's malicious intent. The first and most obvious is the Ghost's almost verbatim repetition of Hamlet's sentiments. Hamlet's expression of disbelief and disappointment in his mother's fickle remarriage is almost identical in mood and structure to that of the Ghost. However, the clue that struck me as the most indicative was the way Shakespeare annotates the Ghost's dialogue--as "Ghost". I referred to a copy of Macbeth, and, as I thought, Shakespeare marked the ghost of Banquo as "Ghost of Banquo". If this apparition were truly that of King Hamlet, Shakespeare would have marked him as "Ghost of Hamlet" or something similar, not simply "Ghost".
Hamlet has already displayed a bit of victimization--extended mourning, etc. However, there is validity to his complaint. In effect, the future of the state of Denmark has been dumped squarely in his lap. Hamlet is in an emotionally fragile state for many different reasons, and must labor to keep a level, cool head in dealing with the presented conflicts. Hamlet has experienced an unusual amount of trial and conflict in a very short time span, and is having trouble keeping his head above water.
To begin, I agree that it is very suspicious that the Ghost repeats, practically word for word, what Hamlet is feeling. I think David brings up a really good point in that Shakespeare only refers to the ghost of Old Hamlet as "Ghost." If he were actually the ghost of Old Hamlet, I think that Shakespeare would have called him something more specific. But, now that we have found out that Claudius did muder Old Hamlet, maybe the Ghost is there for a purpose other than to tempt him.
Also, I agree that Hamlet has had a lot put on his plate in a very short amount of time and that it is difficult to keep stable in his situation. That being said, I think that it has more to do with the fact that he doesnt have what it takes to murder. Hes too sensible to murder. Everytime he has the chance to, he comes up with a new reason not to follow through. I dont think Hamlet is being cowardly, I just think he doesnt have the malicious will to murder.
Tori Cusick, period 4
I decided to add comments to David Dorsey's entry about Hamlet's cherub.
"Hamlet truly does have everybody figured out. I think that everybody actually underestimates his abilities so they blow him off, after all, they do think he is crazy. Hamlet is very good at piecing things together and it is completely possible that he had been doing some spying of his own. I dont think his knowledge is directly from the ghost or his mother or even claudius, maybe he just figures things out as they come along. He reads peoples reactions and knows what would be typical of them and can therefore determine what their next move would be. He is kind of like a professional chess player in that he can predict how others will react before he even makes his move."
-david dorsey
periodo seis
I agree with the statement that Hamlet is truely fooling everyone being crazy. Hamlet's plan is unfolding and everyone is doing what he wants. Hamlet is good at munipulating the people in the kingdom and I sort'a agree with him being able to determine their actions. But piecing things together seems to much of a compliment for Hamlet. I really doubt Hamlet would have guessed that his uncle killed his father if the ghost didn't tell him.
Ariyani Wray
Per. 6
The guy who sits next to chelsea said...
I was mistaken we alreadu did read this, Polonius shows his true colors in that he is a true politician. That one must be aware of how he is percieved by others in order to allign himself with success. ANother thing is the adam and eve reference doesn't just apply to the serpent quote, but to the quote on denmarks "girl gone wild" side. Denmark is pure and beuatiful like eve or adam.
********************************
-First of all Polonius is not a politician. If any thing he is a poloticains tool. Polonius is constantly used though out the story as a "tool" and does not influance his ideas on anyone. Also Denmark is a "rank" garden ever scince claudius came in, he has killed his brother, took the crown and has been currupt the rest of the time.
-Philip Lucas
per.4
in the original post "Claudius talks back" i really agree with Shanley's comment-But know this. I AM your father.
I killed your other father because it was necessary. I wish I didn't have to do it. I wish there was another way, but that ironfisted warmonger could not be allowed to keep our country down. Had I allowed him to live our country would fall behind our neighboring countries.
Not only did I free our country, I also freed your mother. Mmmm. She was stifled by Old Hamlet's inactivity and insensitivity. The emotionless hack was only content when riding a war horse (sorry if that implies anything nasty).
While the deed DOES weigh heavily on my heart, it was for the better.
Think about it, as the old adage says, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Claudius's intent was to improve Denmark's war-ridden conditions and while yes he may feel guilty for murdering his older brother and stripping his nephew of the crown taht rightfully belonged to him not to mention wedding and bedding his one time sister-in-law, he probably made excuses to himslef to the nature that hamlet was too young, immature and out of touch with what denmark needed because of his studying so long at wittenberg, and gertrude's needing someone less straight-edge than Old Hamlet
-masha telishevsky period 6
From the Claudius Talks Back Post, Adam Alper (6th pd) said:
I think Claudius really has no remorse for what he did to King Hamlet. He is a selfish man and all he cares about is his well-being. Even though he goes through that whole stage of praying, I feel it was just to get good with God even though he didn't feel he was wrong. I think he has absolutely no love for Hamlet and he sees Hamlet as his biggest obstacle in his quest for power. He tries as much as possible to get around Hamlet and his intelligence. Claudius is a power wanting, arrogant man who will do whatever is necessary to be on top.
I completely disagree. Claudius has remorse and guilt for what he did. Of course he is praying to get in good with God who wouldn’t after committing murder, but he is also doing it because he feels bad and foolish for his actions. It’s not like he can take them back now he has to keep going. And of course he wants to get around Hamlet and his intelligence, if he doesn’t then he’ll be caught and have to confess and he’ll lose everything, his wife his kingdom. He has to keep up the image of who he is and what he’s done, because if he doesn’t he is endanger of losing everything. So I believe that he is sorry but there is nothing he can do about it now. What’s done is done.
-Heather Gossler
Pd. 4
Anonymous said...
Maybe the reason cluadias thinks
that he did the right thing is becuase the old king was probably
ruling ruthlessly, like maybe the
persicuted many people and he was
probably also a very poor educated
leader and could not do good for the nations economy, that is probably why claudias killed him
that post is from "claudius talks back". i don't know who said it because all it says is anonymous. but i dont' agree with whoever wrote this, because there is no indication from anyone else in the play that old hamlet was a bad king. yeah he was a bit on the attacking side, but during that time that was what you did. you attacked other people and got land trying to make a name for your country. plus it says that he was such a kind person to his wife, a loving and caring person. and from hamlet it seems like his father was a well respected man, therefore throwing out argument that he was a bad king. maybe claudius thought that he could do better, but i don't think that that's why he killed him. he did that out of jelousy. that's what i think about that. and as a random side note, LT is GOD and the dolphins are playing for draft picks.
-andrew goldstein
per. 4
In the "Hamlet And Our Cowardly Conscience" post....
"In the beginning of the play when Hamlet was charged (by the ghost) to avenge his father's death-- but had failed to do so-- this soliloquy represents a self-evaluation of both his character and the ignobility of his cause.
“To be or not to be…” represents the frustration Hamlet feels with his own indecision to take his Uncle’s life in exchange for his father’s. Mingled with his internal struggle are his earlier feelings of depression (prior to his ghostly visit) that lead him to consider suicide, or simply, the value of life when it feels hopeless and without purpose.
I especially love when Hamlet says:
“And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action…”
This suggests that his once-strong conviction (a decision described by color) to kill his uncle is cut down by the thought of when to do it, how to do it, or whether the visit from the ghost was something real enough to act upon. In other words, Hamlet has thought about killing his uncle for so long, that he has over-thought it. He has psyched himself out of the courage necessary to act.
Landon Ball (L-Ball)
period # 4"
Well, my class-mates, I whole-heartedly agree with the ideas of Mr. Ball. I think that Landon was able to see quite well that Hamlet would not be able to accomplish anything until he got his priorities straightened out. I also feel that because Hamlet has over thought everything, he would have been afraid to make any actual confrontations with Claudius. I also think that this soliloquy isn't as important if you look at what Hamlet has done since. Although it may sound good, you could save about an hour by cutting this part. Because Hamlet makes a complete turnaround on his ideas, this almost makes this soliloquy worthless.
Adam Jacobs
per 6
From Brad Goren's Comments I found this.. on reasons Hamlet was bitter towards Ophelia:
------------------
a.Include her into Hamlet's game
b.Embarass Ophelia because of the way Hamlet thinks she betrays him
c. Fool Polonius by giving him what he wants
d. Keep Claudius and Gertrude unsuspecting of Hamlet's real amnimosity
e. Show the public that everything is not alright with the royal family.
----------------
As i may have agreed somewhat before but been hesitant, i now agree with it fully and think that these ideas are much more developed at this point.
At the time i just believed these were ideas thrown into the wind.
Now, I they came full cirlce. Hamlet has fully intergrated Ophelia in his plan, Hamlet has made ophelia crazy at this point because she betrayed him, Polonius believed Hamlet was crazy due to Ophelia all of the time until his death, Gertrude had no idea Hamlet was even close to sane until he told her, and Claduis was fooled as well.
Finally, the last reason stuck out even more now that Ophelia has gone all Howard Dean on everyone. Before you may have not seen this as a way of showing the PUBLIC what was wrong but in effect his bitterness royaly messed Ophelia up, and NOW she is acting crazy all over town. Before people may have thought Hamlet just had issues, but when more crazy people keep springing up out of the ground, people get curious
Michael Tarlow P.6
I think, therfore I am, I think..
I.
-Hamlet dislikes the fact that Ophelia has sold herself to the acting, the lies, the image instead of the substance
-Ophelia is outside of Hamlet's will to control, because she is intruding on Hamlet's play.
-She is a Yankees fan. He likes the Sox.
This comment was my own about the "mousetrap" play, specifically about why Hamlet acts so badly towards Ophelia before the play commences.
Now that Ophelia is really crazy, I think that another reason is that Hamlet hated Polonius in a "well, your father hates me so we can't be together" sort of way.
Ophelia falls prey to Polonius' game of pretend, so Hamlet treats her just like Polonius, because in a way she is.
Shanley Wang
Period 6
This is from David Dorsey in the "Rank and Unweeded Garden Post."
All the characters seem to play a facade. Nobody appears thus far to be real, or truthful, and could eminetly cause their downfall. Polonius' true colors are shown through his speach to Laertes. He suggests that Laertes does many things to not be "who he is" yet still be true to himself. Claudius is concerned much more with what people think, than who he is a character. Hamlet goes along with the way things are, and this could later present problems for him.
-----------
This still seems to be true to a certain extent because no one will really admit their secrets. Everybody in this play has secrets and they are not willing to expose them. Those secrets are that Claudius killed his brother, Hamlet is going to kill Claudius(this has been somewhat revealed), and that Hamlet has known about his fathers death since the beginning of the play(this is also somewhat revealed). Also these secrets are causing everyones downfall, i.e. Hamlet and Claudius.
-Russell Tuchman
-Per.4
I think I agree with David Dorsey in the Cherub post. This is what he said:
Hamlet truly does have everybody figured out. I think that everybody actually underestimates his abilities so they blow him off, after all, they do think he is crazy. Hamlet is very good at piecing things together and it is completely possible that he had been doing some spying of his own. I dont think his knowledge is directly from the ghost or his mother or even claudius, maybe he just figures things out as they come along. He reads peoples reactions and knows what would be typical of them and can therefore determine what their next move would be. He is kind of like a professional chess player in that he can predict how others will react before he even makes his move.
I really agree that everybody underestimates Hamlet's abilities, but in a way I also think that Hamlet has underestimated Claudius's abilities. Maybe not so much his abilities, but his deliberate action. For so much of the play Hamlet was wasting his time trying to get evidence when he could have actually done something.
Also I think that now Ophelia is a foil for Hamlet. She is acting crazy just like he did, and for the same reason (father's death) but for her it is real. I think. Or she could just be playing everybody just like he did. Something tells me that's not exactly right.
Layla Church
Period 6!
In regards to the "to be or not to be" post, i agree with sami gross's quote
-----"Do really think that hamlet is thinking so much about his death here. I think he is thinking about his own concerns about what will come after he kills his uncle. will he have to kill others? and maybe even himself. he doesnt know. i think that is what he is contemplating here."
After reading his final soliliquoy and learning that Hamlet admires Fortinbras because he is not afraid of the "undiscovered country" it makes me feel that in the previous soliliquoy, Hamlet is more afraid of what would happen or what he would be made of in the eyes of the public.
In regards to the "to be or not to be" post, i agree with sami gross's quote
-----"Do really think that hamlet is thinking so much about his death here. I think he is thinking about his own concerns about what will come after he kills his uncle. will he have to kill others? and maybe even himself. he doesnt know. i think that is what he is contemplating here."
After reading his final soliliquoy and learning that Hamlet admires Fortinbras because he is not afraid of the "undiscovered country" it makes me feel that in the previous soliliquoy, Hamlet is more afraid of what would happen or what he would be made of in the eyes of the public.
Shanley Wangs said this about the "Rank and Unweeded Garden" post.
"What I found in all throughout the first few scenes is that everybody is pretending one way or another. Hamlet has to pretend to agree to his mother, Claudius is pretending to be the rightful king and Polonius is showing Laertes how to pretend.
This lends to the idea of appearance vs. reality, and the falseness of everything that goes on in Elsinore."
I found this very interesting because he brings up a very good point about appearance and reality. He talks about how everyone is pretending in Elsinore, and he was right. However, is this stage in play all the built up lies are about to unfold. Adding to what Shanley said, we also have Fortibras "pretending" to come through Elsinore just to use their land, when in reality he is ready to honor his father and fight a war. Now, pretending won't get any of the characters anywhere. Look what happened to Polonius. Claudius is going to be confronted by Hamlet and he no longer hsa the option of pretending. Funny how things are about to really change in Elsinore.
Jordan Rothstein
p. 4
Alex Ringes said this in the "Cherub" post......
"I think it's VERY strange that NO ONE said that this cherub is his mother. Totally lame how 98% of the comments lavish Hamlet with praise of being a genius. First of all, we know that Hamlet has "turned" his mother to the light side, away from Claudius - by confronting her and throwing round after round of guilt-packed punches. She has agreed to help him by keeping the true reasoning behind his antic disposition a secret. Some good evidence right there that his mother had a part as his "informant"."
And in response to this....
When I commented, I said that it was Hamlet's own innate talent. I still think that this is true, but what Alex said is also true. You have to admit, Hamlet is a smart man, and what he has done this whole play is quite impressing. But now, Hamlet has brought his mother in and sort of let her in "behind the scenes". She knows whats goin on now and they are both completely ahead of everyone else. And so when Hamlet and Gertrude are talking, she basically tells him that Claudius is planning to kill him. So Hamlet now knows Claudius' plan just by putting his "antic dispostion" aside and being forward with his mother. I believe that strategy to be a mix of his intelligence and Gertrude's knowledge of Claudius' plans.
Miles Silverstein
Period 4
In "The mousetrap!" Brad Goran said,
"2. Gertrude's comment is intended to show many things, the first being that she sees Hamlet
trying to have a character like Gertrude on stage. Now this is why I think we can say beyond
a shadow of a doubt that Gertrude is indeed in denial. Her ability to acknowledge the fact
that her son is trying to represent her character, and Gertrude's refusal to even
acknowledge that the player queen is even a bit like her is perplexing. It shows the extreme
degree of denial she is truly in.
3. If I were Claudius I would have had Hamlet arrested on the spot. Claudius knows he's
going to hell so if I were him I would try to be protecting the kingdom and my time on Earth
as well as I could. If he doesn't get that Hamlet knows of his hanus plot by now, quite
frankily, Claudius is not smart enough to live. Now one might say that it would raise
further suspicion, but if Hamlet were acting as insane as he was especially in this scene in
his interaction with Ophelia and himself, the entire royal family would have probably
sympathised with Claudius and understood his action. Instead his scream raised much more
doubt and made everyone fidgety when he rose (because people knew something was out of the ordinary)."
^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^
-I agree with Brad that Gertrude’s comments show she knows what up. The fact that she is kind of ignorant to the fact that Hamlet is straight up insulting her seems unlike her, but I think its one of those things that will hit her later at night when the light bulb finally
turns on.
-Claudius does seem a bit of a sissy with it comes to dealing with Hamlet. Although everyone in the kingdom loves Hamlet, because he’s so hot ^_^, Claudius could have punished him more. Allowing Hamlet to see the weakness of Claudius allows him to go through with his plan at a much faster rate. He should do as much as he can while he’s alive, because he will die eventually and he’s for sure not going to a better place.
Brian Hosseiniyar
Per.6
Adam ALper
Period 6
I think Claudius really has no remorse for what he did to King Hamlet. He is a selfish man and all he cares about is his well-being. Even though he goes through that whole stage of praying, I feel it was just to get good with God even though he didn't feel he was wrong. I think he has absolutely no love for Hamlet and he sees Hamlet as his biggest obstacle in his quest for power. He tries as much as possible to get around Hamlet and his intelligence. Claudius is a power wanting, arrogant man who will do whatever is necessary to be on top.
I actually agree with Adam as Claudius only views Hamlet as an obsticle and has no remorse for killing old Hamlet. I also beleive that Claudius is extremely jealous , as I said in my original post. Claudius is a man that could not care less about the well being of others, as all he cares about is himself and his position in the Royal house.
Jason Cordova
per. 4
Why Can Hamlet see the ghost and not Gertrude?
Layla: I think that Hamlet is the only one who can see the ghost because it is in his mind. Subconsciously, he knows that what he is doing to his mother is wrong. So what happened is his mind sent him a message (the ghost) to remind him of his mission. He obviously does not know that it is his own mind because he wonders why Gertrude does not see it.
Samantha: I semi- agree with Layla. Maybe it is a reminder to ease up on his mother, but it could also just be because Gertrude wouldn't be able to do anything anyway. I think if Gertrude had seen the ghost, she would pretty much just flip out. I mean there has to be another depper reason why Gertrude can't see him, when even the guards were able to see him at the beginning of the play. I think Gertrude is in a fragile state of mind and would just think that she was going crazy which would lead to even more harmful consequences. I think Old Hamlet only appears to those who can actually do something like the guards who fetched Hamlet, and Hamlet who's bound to avenge his father. I think it was a reminder to Hamlet to ease up, but also in a way that wouln't create more choas.
but i love you layla!
-sam canez per 4
In the "cherub" post Adam Alper said:
Hamlet is the director of this play and is one step above everyone. He is smarter than everyone and he can sense things others can't. He can tell what Claudius has in store for him just by hearing his words. He has more understanding and control than anyone else in the play.
To expand on this, Hamlet's "cherub" is his superior intelligence that gives him the same advantage against others that he would have if he had an angel literally telling him the future. This advantage gives him more power than anyone else in the play because he has the ability to control their actions.
Stephanie Stone
per. 6
After re-reading some comments i found this one and dissagreed. I dont think Polonius is gining his son any advice to help hime get to the top. all polonius care about in that lecture is making sure his son doesnt do anything that could later come back and make him look bad. that is all polonius ever really cares about. Maybe some of what he is saying is good advice but i dont think any of it is meant to realy help his son.
Sami Gross Per 4 in response to Philip Lucas Per.4
Polonius shows his true identity when he gives advice to his son Laraties. The advice he gives is directed to help him "get to the top," even though the advice givin might not be morraly correct. This gose back to the idea of "arank and unweeded garden" because of all of the corruption. It seems that most of the characters are pretending to be something other than what they realy are.
By: Philip Lucas Per.4
Brad Goran-- Period 6
Shane z. wrote:
"I find it very interesting how Hamlet's thoughts change throughout the soliloquy. In the beginning, Hamlet believes that if you die, you go into an eternal sleep. Hamlet then contemplates 1. the choice of being a coward and killing yourself to get through your misery and 2. living through the misery, while being prideful. He belives that it would be in everybody's "better interest" to just end their lives. But once in this eternal sleep, there is no going back. If somebody has awful experiences during this sleep... there is no way for them to escape. Once Hamlet realizes this, he reevaluates his choice once again. He knows that killing himself would be quite sinful and he would go to Hell for it."
I think Shane hit the main points of Hamlet's to be or not to be soliloquy by stating how Hamlet was contemplating the reasons why people choose to live. I think it's interesting to see how Hamlet was talking about the reason people choose to live before, basically expressing multiple views, being scatterbarained and showing how his brain was muffled. By the end of his final soliloquy we see a determined and focused Hamlet. It's interesting to see how the people around him are showing their true character. Laertes is showing his impatience by asking everyone for swift revenge, while young Fortinbras is and always has calmy and cooly planed his revenge waiting for his time to attack. Monitoring how people react to death is important and has shown who is smart and who is not. We saw just how idiotic Polonius was, trying to ignore the fact that Hamlet's father died so that he could believe his story was true, and then found himself killed. It will be interesting to see how these characters continue to develop. Btw, lovin the buddy Jesus.
As said by Shanley Wang-
Yes, Hamlet, I did kill your father.
But know this. I AM your father.
I killed your other father because it was necessary. I wish I didn't have to do it. I wish there was another way, but that ironfisted warmonger could not be allowed to keep our country down. Had I allowed him to live our country would fall behind our neighboring countries.
Not only did I free our country, I also freed your mother. Mmmm. She was stifled by Old Hamlet's inactivity and insensitivity. The emotionless hack was only content when riding a war horse (sorry if that implies anything nasty).
While the deed DOES weigh heavily on my heart, it was for the better.
I really like this comment to the blog by Shanley he is so smart ( I think it is cause he is asian). Anyways I love the second line. After I wrote my blog for this one I thought Shanleys was so good. It uses great evidence from the story and I do believe that the old Hamlet was not doing good for his country and Claudius wanted to rule and knew he could do it better and the only way to be king was to kill his brother. I think Shan uses the worksheet we got in class and really applies it to Claudius instead of Gertrude. Yah for Shan he's da Man.
And also a thank you to benjie for writing about my cheese blog. Thanks my Hebrew art buddy.
Laura Lascoe
Period 6
Eric Singer
Period 6
Hamlet knows full well what Claudius has in store for him. The question is, how?
In response to the "I see a cherub" post, Dani Schwartz wrote...
I think that his Cherub is the ghost even though I'm probably wrong. Hamlet knows why Claudius wants him to leave. But Hamlet wants to kill Claudius because of his father's death, so his dad is probably the 'angel.'
the end
I would have to disagree with this statement. I could see how it would make sense in the ghost was the cherub by this explination, but thats a little too metaphorical for me. I think that when Hamlet says that he sees a cherub, thats just his way of saying, "o, i get it now." So therefore, Hamlet's cherub is himself and his own intuition.
In the post, "A Rank and Unweeded Garden", I strongly agree with David Dorsey's comment.
"All the characters seem to play a facade. Nobody appears thus far to be real, or truthful, and could eminetly cause their downfall. Polonius' true colors are shown through his speach to Laertes. He suggests that Laertes does many things to not be "who he is" yet still be true to himself. Claudius is concerned much more with what people think, than who he is a character. Hamlet goes along with the way things are, and this could later present problems for him."
I agree with the statement about how nobody seems to be real or truthful. But mostly I agree with the statement that this behavior will ultimately lead to "their downfall".
Just to expand, Claudius, with being concerned about what people think of him, attempts to convince the citizens of Denmark that his actions of marrying his dead brothers wife and taking over the throne are okay.
Michael Ashoori
Period 4
I agree with what Adam Alper said about claudius...
I think Claudius really has no remorse for what he did to King Hamlet. He is a selfish man and all he cares about is his well-being. Even though he goes through that whole stage of praying, I feel it was just to get good with God even though he didn't feel he was wrong. I think he has absolutely no love for Hamlet and he sees Hamlet as his biggest obstacle in his quest for power. He tries as much as possible to get around Hamlet and his intelligence. Claudius is a power wanting, arrogant man who will do whatever is necessary to be on top.
To expand on that, Claudius is a selfish man and he doesn't care about anybody else. He killed his brother to become king and he wants to kill Hamlet because he doesn't want Hamlet to become king or reveal what Claudius has done. All Claudius wants is power and he doesn't care what he has to do to get it. Hamlet is the only man who can stop him from being the king and having all of this paower thats why he wants to get rid of him.
Elijah Parris Per.4
On "the mousetrap" post I agree with Mariam's reasons as to why Hamlet treats Ophelia bitterly. -
1. I think the possible reasons Hamlet treats Ophelia bitterly is because :
A) he wants to prove that he doesnt care what anyone thinks, because he knows everyones watching his every move with Opelia, and by allowing himself to keep doing it he is also showing a sence of power because he feels he can do exactly what he wants and no one could stop him.
B) he might also be doing it to make up for the antic disposition he had towards her. (storming into the closet- Andrew's sigh haha)and by being closer to her it might prove that he does truely care about her
C) because he truely loves Opelia (REALLY less likely - really didnt know what else to day because as you saw in class im completely stuck on my first possible reason for his actions)
-- I agree with what Mariam has to say, and the order of likeliness of why Hamlet is acting this way. I agree with Mariam that he is very power driven, and I think that really effects his state of mind, and his actions, especially in dealing with Ophelia. I agree that the antic disposition opinion is second, because it seems to played out, and there have to be other reasons why he does what he does, other than putting on an antic disposition. Lastly, I also highly doubt that he truely loves Ophelia, and this is all out of a crazy passionate love between two people.
--Elita Hemmati, Period 4
Jillian Porter Period 4
"Shanley Wang
Period 6
Hamlet's cherub cannot be the ghost, for the ghost is the exact opposite of an angel.
Hamlet's cherub could be the discovery (and slaughter) of Polonius, or even Horatio, because he easily realizes everything that happens after the play. After the affirmation of Claudius' guilt, Hamlet only needs to look at Claudius' next target using logic.
As an intellectual, Hamlet arrives at discoveries using logic."
I agree with this completely. Hamlet's cherub is his intuition which is rather prophetic, like an angel who brings news and visions of the future. Hamlet's plan has worked out perfectly up to this point and he can easily see the path he needs to take to finish his mission/game/mascarade(sp?).
Before the western world turned the cherub into a fat, baby-like being with wings and a cheery disposition, cherubs were a type of angel that did not bring news(like Hamlet's cherub) but gaurded things. There was a cherub stationed on the outskirts of the garden of edan after adam and eve got kicked out so they couldn't get back in and cherubs were said to gaurd the Arc of the Covinent. In light of that, perhapes Hamlet feels invinsible, like no matter what he does he will be gaurded.
I agree with David B in the “ O Cursed Spite!” posting when he said…
There are a few phenomena that indicate the Ghost's malicious intent. The first and most obvious is the Ghost's almost verbatim repetition of Hamlet's sentiments. Hamlet's expression of disbelief and disappointment in his mother's fickle remarriage is almost identical in mood and structure to that of the Ghost. However, the clue that struck me as the most indicative was the way Shakespeare annotates the Ghost's dialogue--as "Ghost". I referred to a copy of Macbeth, and, as I thought, Shakespeare marked the ghost of Banquo as "Ghost of Banquo". If this apparition were truly that of King Hamlet, Shakespeare would have marked him as "Ghost of Hamlet" or something similar, not simply "Ghost".
Hamlet has already displayed a bit of victimization--extended mourning, etc. However, there is validity to his complaint. In effect, the future of the state of Denmark has been dumped squarely in his lap. Hamlet is in an emotionally fragile state for many different reasons, and must labor to keep a level, cool head in dealing with the presented conflicts. Hamlet has experienced an unusual amount of trial and conflict in a very short time span, and is having trouble keeping his head above water.
Finally, I love this play. I've read and performed Shakespeare before, and haven't really loved anything with which I've previously worked. Hamlet is by far his strongest work I've encountered, and I really feel like I take a lot away from analysis.”
I believe that this is a great way of putting this, and I never looked at this part of the play such as David did. I do remember hearing the Ghost utter the very thought that Hamlet was sensing all along. I also see it awesome that david was able to notice that the Ghost is referred to differently ("Ghost") when put up against other plays. Maybe this Ghost has other significance other than to pose a temptation.
I also belive that Hamlet is in an "emotionally fragile state,"and has had a tremendous weight put upon his shoulders. Hamlet has what it takes to murder Claudius, but is trying to keep a "cool head in dealing with the presented conflicts."
Landon Ball (L-Ball)
period # 4
Imraan Shirazi posted for a Rank and Unweeded Garden.
what appeared to me throughout the story so far is mostly everyone has a fake image. Polonious shows his true colors in I.iii when he gives "life" lessons to Laertes about how to become number one by being fake and by being one of the crowd. Claudius seems to care more about his reputation than what is best for the country. Hamlet falls into the trap through retribution and when he obey's Claudius and "goes with the flow."
------------------------------------
I absolutley agree with this post i think that Imraan Shirazi has hit the nail on the head with this post. Polonius totally showed his true colors by revealing his secrets of survival to Laertes.
-Claudius is shows how he is more interested in his reputation than the welfare of the country by putting off the letter from fortinbras and focus so intently upon Hamlet.
-Hamlet fell into his trap by going with the flow and not acting immediatley.
Phillip Wang
Period 4
I (Hannah Kaufman Per.6) agree with what Ariyani said in “I see a cherub.”
“Obviously Hamlet knows that Claudius is planning on killing him. I think when Hamlet mentions his "cherub", I think it's just a notion that he has a weapon too. Not a real weapon but something to fight back with, possibly a plan, help from another character, ect. I don't know exactly. But something of that sort.” -Ariyani Wray-
And here comes my complex addition to this statement; it’s obvious that Hamlet has read between the lines of Claudius’ script, and has understood what Claudius’ intensions are, I Love the way Lacey out (same post) “okay so have you ever seen an episode of any sort where the husband and wife have been together so long they know what the other will do and when they will do it? Well that’s like Hamlet he knows what the logical answer to what Claudius will do is.” –Lacey Thomson- I think that what Ariyani mentioned is the true intension of Hamlets statement, that he wanted Claudius to think he had a “savior” but that Hamlet doesn’t know what his “cherub” is. Hamlet is trying to be a politician as well, in the sense of bluffing literally in this case, right in the face of his opponent. He knows that he has “something to fight back with” but doesn’t know what, he is so used to relying on his wit that he is confident that he will come up with something or that he will be saved by some kind of “magic” since his environment is practically a fairytale, he doesn’t really have a true understanding of reality, that’s why he had such a hard time with his fathers death, and why he is so preoccupied with death, because he has never been exposed to such reality being the Prince of Denmark.
Hannah Kaufman Per.6
Girl power!
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